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Friday Open Thread

You can read the Nunes memo here.

I'm swamped at work. Here's a new open thread, all topics welcome.

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    So far (5.00 / 2) (#11)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 02:57:22 PM EST
    "The memo" seems every bit the bomb that was expected

    I keep hearing how it "still might" give Trump cover to do his will.

    I guess.  The whole thing just seems bizarre

    They are "saying" they are doing this because of the FBIs treatment of Hillary.

    Pffft

    Also as far as I can see all it establishes is the Trump campaign hired a know Russian agent who had a FISA warrant renewed at least 4 times.

    I mean (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 03:20:53 PM EST
    I get this was a memo to FOX news.  They even got it before everyone else.

    I just don't see how that is worth the negative press this is generating.

    As far as all those people are concerned no memo was even needed.  This will change not a single mind.  Actually I can see it turning some people off.

    I don't think FOX news can put enough lipstick on this pig.

    It seems wildly desperate to me.  

    Parent

    I will just say this (5.00 / 2) (#13)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 03:24:43 PM EST
    If Trump really moves to fire Mueller or shut down the investigation they have no idea of the backlash.

    There would be people in the streets in numbers never seen.

    I believe that.  Personally I am already signed up.  I expect most of us are.  It could come down to us.

    Be ready.

    Parent

    Trump may (none / 0) (#22)
    by KeysDan on Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 04:26:27 PM EST
    try an indirect move by firing Rosenstein, while keeping Mueller and strangling the investigation--circumscribing the scope and cutting funding.

    However, all of these tactics will be seen for what they are: an, in fact, firing of Mueller. Mueller, he knows, has the goods on him and his family.   Just from the public record, it is not difficult to see by objective layman, in my view. The stakes are none other than as Benjamin Franklin noted in responce to a question of what kind of government do we have: a Republic if you can keep it.

    From Trump's vantage point, he has the choice of ridding himself of Mueller and the investigation or, at best, resigning as president.  It, for him, at this point, is a risk assessment tipping toward a firing.  And, we can be certain, he does not see himself resigning.

    From Mueller's vantage point, he knows he can't just bring his report to the Republican Congress and leave it to Ryan, Nunes, wt al. to take it from there.

     So, he will have to use the sure-fire route available to him: grand jury indictments, including for Trump.  There is, of course, legal dispute about indicting a sitting president, but it has not been tested by the Courts.

      Even if dismissed by a judge, it is the way to bring this disaster to the public square and to obtain some resolution.  If Trump is looking to best Nixon, he can bring his case to the Supreme Court, as Nixon did on the tapes.  We can hope for a similar outcome.....no one is above the law, including the president.

    Parent

    One thing is becoming clear (none / 0) (#33)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 05:31:20 PM EST
    This will probably only be resolved by an election.

    The election will probably be the next target.

    Nuclear war, marshall law blah blah

    He will not go quietly

    Parent

    Nailed it.... (none / 0) (#36)
    by NYShooter on Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 06:12:34 PM EST
    "This will (Forgive me, I removed "probably") only be resolved by an election."

    And,

    "He will not go quietly."


    Parent

    Well, based on Watergate, it could be sooner (none / 0) (#59)
    by Towanda on Sat Feb 03, 2018 at 09:06:14 AM EST
    by some months, before the midterm elections.  Remember, Nixon went down not in November but in August -- when polling (and other measures) made clear to Republicans in Congress that they were going to be in trouble in November. That caused the delegation led by Goldwater to go to the White House to tell Tricky Dick that it was over.

    Not that we have Republican leadership today with the integrity of Goldwater . . . oh goddess help us, it is that bad now that Goldwater looks good, compared to McConnell and Ryan.

    Parent

    I come to believe (none / 0) (#61)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Feb 03, 2018 at 09:54:34 AM EST
    A substantial number of republicans, and may be some democrats, are not and have not for a while protecting Trump from Mueller, but protecting themselves

    I can't find another way to explain the lengths they have gone to.

    Sure, the base.  But it seems to me if they got out of the way there would soon be enough evidence to turn even enough of the base.

    I don't think so.  When Trump goes down he won't go alone is what I think.

    And I expect them all to scratch and claw at the walls to stop it.

    Hence, guard the election.  From both Russians and Trumpists.  

    Parent

    Dark money (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Feb 03, 2018 at 10:00:24 AM EST
    They opened the floodgates and made sure the is no way to tell where it comes from.

    Unless you have subpoena power.

    I think they are sh!tting bricks.

    Parent

    Oh, yes. In this fall's local off-year election (5.00 / 2) (#64)
    by Peter G on Sat Feb 03, 2018 at 10:21:31 AM EST
    one of our best, moderate and intelligent Republican town council members was defeated in a Republican-dominated ward, by a less-qualified, novice Democratic challenger, for no reason anyone can fathom other than that the incumbent had an "R" next to his name. I think (and hope) we will see a lot of that in the November 2018 elections.

    Parent
    I believe we will (none / 0) (#65)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Feb 03, 2018 at 10:44:16 AM EST
    I also believe they believe we will.

    After what we have seen can we doubt a threat to the election if they feel it threatens them?

    My hair is not on fire here.  I doubt they could pull it off, being more Dr Evil than Professor Moriarty, but I think attempts are almost expected.

    They won't go quietly.   Either.


    Parent

    I (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by FlJoe on Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 03:26:39 PM EST
    been thinking it's all a cover for this
    as everyone was distracted with Devin Nunes' theatrics surrounding his memo attacking the Mueller investigation into whether Trump has engaged in a conspiracy with Russia. All three of Russia's intelligence heads came to DC for a visit.

    That's some scary sheet if you ask me.
    Oh and remember all the out rage over this ?

    These visits have been associated with Trump's decision not to enforce congressionally mandated sanctions, claiming that the threat of sanctions is already working even as Mike Pompeo insists that Russia remains a threat. In lieu of providing a mandated list of Russians who could be sanctioned, Treasury basically released the Forbes list of richest Russians, meaning that the sanction list includes people who're squarely opposed to Putin. In my opinion, reporting on the Forbes list underplays the contempt of the move. Then, today, Treasury released a memo saying Russia was too systematically important to sanction.

    Yeah, me neither.
     

    Parent
    No doubt (none / 0) (#17)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 03:33:18 PM EST
    Back to Gates and Manafort.

    It seems likely one or both of them just might have information about Russian money finding its way into the pockets of us politicians.

    Which is illegal, I believe.

    It seems to me only explanation for what they are doing.  I simply do not think there is that much love for Trump.  These people are acting in their own interests.

    Which brings us to another recent story linked here.  Mueller will skip congress or indict a bunch of them and indict Trump.

    Parent

    I (none / 0) (#19)
    by FlJoe on Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 03:55:00 PM EST
    have been wondering about the radio silence on the Manfort FISA warrant after all the hyperventilation over Page, who IMO is a small fish.

    Parent
    The memo (none / 0) (#15)
    by KeysDan on Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 03:28:43 PM EST
    seems to be a dud to me.  I think Nunes' midnight ride had more credibility.  Of course, this does not mean that Trump, Hannity, Republicans and Russian bots, will not work to fire off the dud.  

    The premise of the memo is that the Dossier was the basis for the FISA warrant application and renewals (by four different judges), but its conclusion was that George Popodopoulos's bar talk triggered it.

     And, the weakness of the romantic FBI emailers role needed to be bolstered with reference to Agent Lisa Page as Agent Strzok's mistress, rather than the more correct, Adulterer Strzok and the Adulteress Page.

    It is said that Nunes staffer, Kash Patel, was a primary author, bringing his expertise and special recognition, including his federal judge-award  "Order of Ineptitude" to the task.  But, it may be that this part of the memo reflects Trump's input.  

    I am not sure that the Democrats' report should even be released.  Let the focus stay with the Republican's laughingstock version without deflection with counter-arguments.  The Republican version falls on its own.

    Parent

    Considering (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 04:08:55 PM EST
    the fact that FBI is saying a lot of things about this idiotic memo it probably is best to mostly step back and not get in the middle of the war of words between the GOP and the FBI.

    Parent
    Nunes just said on tv that Gowdy (5.00 / 3) (#27)
    by Towanda on Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 05:15:17 PM EST
    helped to write the memo, after actually looking at the FISA applications -- which Nunes did not do.

    Nunes never resd them. WTF?

    But Gowdy denounced the memo today. WTF?

    I now am out of f___s to give. The GOP craziness is beyond belief.

    Parent

    It almost makes me worry (none / 0) (#30)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 05:23:33 PM EST
    About some vast complex as yet unseen 11th dimensional chess krap because it seems impossible it could be as stupid and pointless as it appears.

    Almost.

    Parent

    Not (none / 0) (#86)
    by FlJoe on Sun Feb 04, 2018 at 08:09:38 AM EST
    that complex, actually just smoke screen 101 for this
    as everyone was distracted with Devin Nunes' theatrics surrounding his memo attacking the Mueller investigation into whether Trump has engaged in a conspiracy with Russia. All three of Russia's intelligence heads came to DC for a visit.
    ...
    These visits have been associated with Trump's decision not to enforce congressionally mandated sanctions, claiming that the threat of sanctions is already working even as Mike Pompeo insists that Russia remains a threat. In lieu of providing a mandated list of Russians who could be sanctioned, Treasury basically released the Forbes list of richest Russians, meaning that the sanction list includes people who're squarely opposed to Putin. In my opinion, reporting on the Forbes list underplays the contempt of the move. Then, today, Treasury released a memo saying Russia was too systematically important to sanction.
     I apologize for reposting this but I think this is a HUGE story that has been mostly ignored (even by most left sites).

    If you ask me, the tRump administration and their cronies in Congress couldn't act more like Russian stooges if they tried. My inescapable conclusion is they are.

    I am way beyond worried.

    Parent

    In that same Nunes (none / 0) (#32)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 05:27:59 PM EST
    Interview he promises more memos to come.

    Excellent!

    Parent

    Nunes Is the GOP's Sideshow Bob. (none / 0) (#40)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 07:30:41 PM EST
    I agree (none / 0) (#18)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 03:34:07 PM EST
    Yo también Howdy... (none / 0) (#28)
    by fishcamp on Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 05:16:28 PM EST
    Adulterers! Let them be stoned. (none / 0) (#25)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 05:09:51 PM EST
    KeysDan: "And, the weakness of the romantic FBI emailers role needed to be bolstered with reference to Agent Lisa Page as Agent Strzok's mistress, rather than the more correct, Adulterer Strzok and the Adulteress Page."

    And then afterward, let them then pass the bong around to the rest of us.
    ;-D

    Parent

    The Memo..... (none / 0) (#29)
    by desertswine on Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 05:23:10 PM EST
    That's it?  That's all they got?

    Parent
    Or as Bob McChesney calls it (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Towanda on Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 06:13:07 PM EST
    . . . The Mehmo.

    Parent
    Just when you think (none / 0) (#31)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 05:25:35 PM EST
    They are out of face plants

    Parent
    I believe (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by linea on Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 10:48:59 PM EST
    I believe `well taken care of' is an allusion to prison rape. I have always found it repulsive the way boorish people, mostly men but some women too, gleefully encourage male rape in prison. Dwayne Johnson is a former pro-wrestling entertainer who now stars in comedies. Why exactly is he commenting on this case at all?

    For the same reason you are. (2.67 / 3) (#60)
    by Anne on Sat Feb 03, 2018 at 09:18:17 AM EST
    If he can't speak, maybe you should also zip it.

    Parent
    Celebrities who say provacative things (none / 0) (#143)
    by jondee on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 10:52:50 AM EST
    get a lot of attention in this country.

    To the point where it even becomes feasible for them to run for public office. And sometimes be elected.

    A local sportscaster here with no background whatsoever in public service, who never expressed an original thought even when he was covering high school fooball games, ran for state senator and won in a landslide.

    In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

    Parent

    Presented (5.00 / 2) (#57)
    by FlJoe on Sat Feb 03, 2018 at 06:08:24 AM EST
    as a Strangelovian diversion from the Memonado
    Since 1993, the Department of Energy has had to be ready to conduct a nuclear test within two to three years if ordered by the President. Late last year, the Trump Administration ordered the department to be ready, for the first time, to conduct a short-notice nuclear test in as little as six months.

    That is not enough time to install the warhead in shafts as deep as 4,000 ft. and affix all the proper technical instrumentation and diagnostics equipment. But the purpose of such a detonation, which the Administration labels "a simple test, with waivers and simplified processes," would not be to ensure that the nation's most powerful weapons were in operational order, or to check whether a new type of warhead worked, a TIME review of nuclear-policy documents has found. Rather, a National Nuclear Security Administration official tells TIME, such a test would be "conducted for political purposes."

    Proving once an for all that tRumps button is big and it works!

    "not socially acceptable"??? (5.00 / 2) (#58)
    by Yman on Sat Feb 03, 2018 at 08:15:58 AM EST
    "The Rock is a very popular celebrity.  Someone might take that quote to mean it's OK to kill people we don't think are socially acceptable."

    How someone decides to interpret that quote is their problem - Johnson is merely expressing his opinion.  More importantly, the fact that you characterize Nassar - a man who sexually abused hundreds of girls in his care - as merely "socially unacceptable", tells anyone all they need to know ...

    ... about you.

    Not really (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by McBain on Sat Feb 03, 2018 at 10:44:52 AM EST
    I look at each case/incident individually. I usually speak out when there are misconceptions or a rush to judgement.  I've posted many comments about the bad behavior of law enforcement.  


    I am no football fan, but (5.00 / 2) (#120)
    by Peter G on Sun Feb 04, 2018 at 09:07:42 PM EST
    ... Philadelphia! What a great game.

    I was an Eagles fan for a day (5.00 / 3) (#121)
    by Chuck0 on Sun Feb 04, 2018 at 09:13:24 PM EST
    After all I do live in PA. It WAS a great game. Now back to the Ravens.

    Parent
    I am no football fan either (none / 0) (#123)
    by linea on Sun Feb 04, 2018 at 10:26:35 PM EST
    Is it over? My GBF invited me to a Super Bowl party but I really hate sports.

    I like Pink but Lady Gaga still has the best rendition of the US National Anthem. Though this remains the most beautiful rendition of any national anthem internationaly, in my opinion.

    I read that the University of Minnesota and Augsburg College took the opportunity of the Super Bowl being in Minneapolis to hold workshops and discussions on excessive police violence in African American communities.

    Parent

    Yes. As a NYG fan I wanted NE to lose (none / 0) (#149)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 11:57:37 AM EST
    more than I wanted Philly to lose.

    Regardless of outcomes, the past couple SBs have been barn-burners.


    Parent

    The Eagles secondary seemed completely (none / 0) (#199)
    by jondee on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 06:06:14 PM EST
    at sea trying to cover NE's receivers through most of the game. I was thinking to myself if they keep on like this, there's no way they can win. Fortunately though, the Patriot's D was even leakier than the Eagle's pass defense was.

    Parent
    If the R's can't get Alito's vote (5.00 / 4) (#155)
    by Peter G on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 12:42:56 PM EST
    in a highly political gerrymandering case, you know they've really gone too far this time. As a result it appears that several House seats in Pennsylvania may swing from R to D, just because the lines must now be redrawn in a way that allows the majority to win. This is in addition to the close districts that will flip because the voters are disgusted at what is happening in the White House as well as at its enablers.

    True, Trump set himself (5.00 / 2) (#189)
    by KeysDan on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 03:45:30 PM EST
    up for a fall by taking credit for the robust stock market, since this businessman apparently does not know that the stock market fluctuates.

    But, the very stable Trump and his Republicans do need to take responsibility, to a certain extent, for the stock market tumble.

     Pump-priming (a term Trump claims to have coined), in this case with massive tax cuts, during a time of full employment and good economy brings fears of over-heating.

     The markets are likely to fear an increase in interest rates to ward off inflation and cool things down.

      And, the Republican tax cuts  have dwindled the reserves in the Treasury, forcing the government to borrow more and faster and to raise the federal tax debt ceiling....something the Republicans have not yet gotten around to.

    And, as for that grand tax cut for the working people, that $1.50 per week additional (according to Paul Ryan's brag story) will get eaten up fast by any increase in inflation.  But, hey, we can enjoy our temporary "Little
    Tax Cut" so that the corporations can get their permanent really big one.

    What happens when our new debt ratios (5.00 / 1) (#191)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 03:52:22 PM EST
    Begin to affect the markets? Is that what set the VIX off? Just a whiff of exploding debt in our future?

    Parent
    ... increase federal net borrowing for the first quarter of 2018 (Jan.-Mar.) to $441 billion. Assuming that the Fed's projected trend line continues, another $1.3 trillion will be added to the federal debt just this year alone.

    Gee, who saw that coming, eh?

    Parent

    Someone just reminded me of the other (5.00 / 1) (#209)
    by jondee on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 10:24:10 PM EST
    positively putrid Superbowl commercial: Dodge appropriating an MLK speech to sell pick-up trucks.

    This is not healthy. (4.00 / 1) (#206)
    by Anne on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 07:59:49 PM EST
    Hayley Magnus

    Or attractive.

    Well, unless you like the concentration camp look.

    So does Trump fire everyone in 24 hrs? (none / 0) (#1)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 01:37:56 PM EST
    Surely he will want to preside over the biggest Saturday Night Massacre in history. Bigger than Washington's or Lincoln's.

    This nightmare could be over (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Chuck0 on Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 04:09:11 PM EST
    in 24 hours. Just tell the dotard that Obama can hold his breath for 10 minutes,

    Parent
    What a great idea! (none / 0) (#79)
    by leap on Sat Feb 03, 2018 at 07:01:34 PM EST
    You made me laugh.

    Parent
    Maybe he'll do it tonight, you know, (none / 0) (#3)
    by Anne on Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 01:47:18 PM EST
    so it doesn't interfere with his weekend plans.

    Parent
    I always think this guy wants to be an original (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 01:52:12 PM EST
    And them I'm always wrong about that. He's always trying to outdo someone. He's outdone Washington, Lincoln, and Jackson. Nixon can't go down in history as some kind of Saturday Night badass. He must be Trumped too.

    This may not occur to Trump though until Don Lemon brings up Nixon tonight :)

    Parent

    I'm (none / 0) (#16)
    by FlJoe on Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 03:29:55 PM EST
    thinking Sunday morning to upstage the Super Bowl.

    Parent
    Wouldn't He? (none / 0) (#42)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 08:01:40 PM EST
    He's so out of his mind that's exactly what he would do.

    Parent
    More bad behavior in the Nassar case (none / 0) (#2)
    by McBain on Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 01:40:52 PM EST
    Link
    A judge says there's "no way" she'll punish a father of three victims of Larry Nassar after the dad tried to attack the convicted former sports doctor in a Michigan courtroom...

    Cunningham could have given Margraves a jail sentence or fine as she considered whether to hold him in contempt of court.

    If the only options were a significant jail sentence or significant fine, I can understand the judge's decision. But if there was an option for a lesser sentence/fine I think that might have been appropriate. Otherwise we'll see more attempts at vigilante justice.

    Randall Margraves has apologized to the court for his action. The judge gave him a break, and so should everybody else. You best realize that Larry Nassar wouldn't even be in court, were it not for what he did to all those girls. He's hardly a victim of vigilante justice.

    Parent
    Children. Three daughters. (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by Towanda on Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 05:08:29 PM EST
    All three daughters sexually abused by Nassar.

    And here is another number: McBain now has issues with two judges in this case.  Hmmm.

    Parent

    Thank you for that clarification. (none / 0) (#39)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 07:24:54 PM EST
    As for McBain's issues here, they are what they are. If he wants to be sympathetic to the travails of a now-convicted serial child sexual abuser, that's his business. I've made my opinions known already, and see no reason to amend them.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    I best realize? (none / 0) (#34)
    by McBain on Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 05:39:55 PM EST
    or what?

    The real question is...  what type of behavior by a sympathetic person, like this father, is acceptable and what isn't?  If he gets a free pass, for the most part, on aggressively charging a convicted rapist, what can someone do to a convicted murderer? Does this free pass only exist once someone is convicted or is it OK to do during the actual trial?

    I understand the judges decision but I think it sends the wrong message. I'm sure he's not the only grieving relative to get a break.  I just wonder if this break had anything to do with the high profile  nature of the case.  

     

    Parent

    What if there was (5.00 / 4) (#35)
    by Repack Rider on Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 05:52:18 PM EST
    ...a "mitigating circumstance" that explained the actions?  Like proof beyond any doubt that Nassar had performed a criminal sexual assault on the guy's daughters?

    How many daughters do you have?  I'm guessing that number is none.

    Parent

    It's why we have Judges (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by NYShooter on Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 06:15:52 PM EST
    They make judgements.

    Simple.

    Parent

    Hmmmm. Wasn't there a similar case a few years (none / 0) (#48)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 09:45:45 PM EST
    ago?   Mother shot defendant who rude red her daughter. No freebie for mom.

    Parent
    Ellie Nesler. (none / 0) (#54)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 10:48:49 PM EST
    That was a very sad case (none / 0) (#69)
    by McBain on Sat Feb 03, 2018 at 11:44:03 AM EST
    Nesler shot and killed the man accused of molesting her son.  According to this article she was high on methamphetamine at the time of the shooting.  
    Nesler pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity and was convicted on a lesser charge of voluntary manslaughter.

    She was sentenced to 10 years in prison but won an appeal based on juror misconduct and was released after three years.

    But her problems with the law did not end. In July 2002, she was convicted of buying 10,000 pseudoephedrine tablets used to make methamphetamine and was sentenced to six years in prison. She was granted an early release from the Central California Women's facility in Chowchilla in 2006.

    I'm not sure if her conviction fit her crime but it might have convinced others not to take the law into their own hands.

    Nesler died from breast cancer at age 56

    Parent

    And, fwiw, (none / 0) (#84)
    by NYShooter on Sat Feb 03, 2018 at 11:09:38 PM EST
    Ellie's son, William Nesler, the victim of the aforementioned molesting, is doing 25 to life on a 1'st. degree murder conviction for, apparently,
    "stomping to death" a handyman hired to do some chores around their house. My understanding is he'd been in and out of prison a couple of dozen times, and, this murder took place less than 24 hours after being released from prison, having been imprisoned for assaulting this same unfortunate guy.

    Tragedy all around.

    Parent

    But (none / 0) (#41)
    by linea on Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 07:53:36 PM EST
    There was no actual `vigilante justice' there was a disruption in the court. Judges handle courtroom disturbances as they see fit.

    Parent
    Something in between, I would say (5.00 / 4) (#52)
    by Peter G on Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 10:22:58 PM EST
    First, the distraught father is not a "victim" and should not have been allowed to speak at the sentencing hearing, unless his daughters are still too young to speak for themselves. Second, he specifically threatened Dr. Nassar, which the judge gently and persistently dissuaded. The father then announced that he would try to attack Nassar anyway, and almost got to him, but for courtroom security. So it was an active attempt at vigilante justice, as well as a courtroom disruption. That said, I agree the judge had discretion as to how to respond, and did not necessarily abuse that discretion. I say this as a career defense lawyer who is also the father of three daughters.

    Parent
    Two more things. (none / 0) (#63)
    by Peter G on Sat Feb 03, 2018 at 10:13:13 AM EST
    First, I saw a photo of the attempted attack in this morning's paper. I am very pleased to see that as Nassar ducks under the table, his defense attorney is jumping up to stop the father and protect his client physically (along with three sheriffs). Second, the father is not necessarily "home free," just because the judge did not find him in summary criminal contempt of court. What he did is also prima facie a crime -- assault -- for which the father could be charged by the DA's office. Not that I think he will be. But the newspaper story did mention that the sheriff's office filed a formal report with the DA, which invites consideration of bringing criminal charges.

    Parent
    DOW drops 550 (none / 0) (#5)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 02:14:18 PM EST
    Maybe markets dislike constitutional crisis

    606 (none / 0) (#7)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 02:19:28 PM EST
    So, will Donald be taking credit (none / 0) (#8)
    by Anne on Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 02:29:08 PM EST
    for the market correction?

    I'm guessing not.  Where's Obama - this is probably his fault.

    Parent

    #TrumpCrash2018 is trending, Anne (none / 0) (#26)
    by Towanda on Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 05:10:01 PM EST
    but not with his Russian bots.

    Parent
    Wonder how badly it continues to crash (none / 0) (#9)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 02:32:21 PM EST
    Tomorrow

    Parent
    678 (none / 0) (#10)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 02:40:06 PM EST
    Not until Monday Tracy. (5.00 / 2) (#43)
    by fishcamp on Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 08:16:15 PM EST
    My stocks went way down.  Somebody may need to adopt me.  Just what you need around the house...a broke old guy.

    Parent
    I feel your pain, fishcamp. (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by caseyOR on Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 09:04:29 PM EST
    I truly do.

    Parent
    I'm sorry :( (none / 0) (#50)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 10:14:00 PM EST
    Not funny

    Parent
    Thanks casey. (none / 0) (#177)
    by fishcamp on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 02:36:15 PM EST
    the Market has gone down even more today..  Good thing the Tarpon will soon be here and I can start guiding again.  Hope I remember how to do it.  I know where they go when they get here, it's just that part about hopping up on the poling platform.  I don't do much hopping anymore, but I'll hop for food.

    Parent
    I know, fish. (5.00 / 1) (#183)
    by caseyOR on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 02:48:21 PM EST
    I am wondering if I should start looking for part time employment. I know exactly nothing about fishing. Maybe Walmart greeter?

    Still, the market closed today higher than it was at the beginning of the year. It just hurts to see those retirement dollars vanish with a falling market. I hope things steady themselves tomorrow.


    Parent

    -1030 (none / 0) (#179)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 02:41:14 PM EST
    At 3:58

    Hopping practice maybe

    Parent

    Ha! (none / 0) (#44)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 08:24:49 PM EST
    I lost a day. Felt like Thursday all day.

    Parent
    I read that the final number was 666? (none / 0) (#45)
    by Towanda on Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 08:36:09 PM EST
    That's just too weird, if so:

    The debbil made Trump do it to the stock market.

    #TrumCrash2018

    Parent

    Only with rounding (none / 0) (#56)
    by jmacWA on Sat Feb 03, 2018 at 05:56:23 AM EST
    665.75... but still suitable for Trump... he probably requires the rounding, beast that he is.

    Parent
    ALTERED CARBON (none / 0) (#6)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 02:18:29 PM EST
    Is quite wonderful.

    And definitely looks like the most expensive SciFi series NETFLIX ever did

    I am not okay with vigilante justice. (none / 0) (#53)
    by vml68 on Fri Feb 02, 2018 at 10:43:21 PM EST
    My point was that you don't show any such concern when the perpetrator is a cop.

    there's always the potential of killing/hurting an innocent person.


    THE ALIENIST (none / 0) (#68)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Feb 03, 2018 at 11:06:36 AM EST
    sorry I can't shut up about this.  

    I may be late, apparently many commenters read this book in the 90s.

    I guess there has been a20 year battle bringing it to the screen.  Their mistake was thinking movie makers would like a story without super powers.  Fortunately we live in the golden age of tv.

    This series looks at things that, these days, can only be explored by cable tv.

    I recommended the series.  Oh yeah.  Just want to recommend the book.  I'm listening.

    It really the story of forensics.  It's like Dexter meets Upstairs Downstairs.  By way of Dancer From The Dance.

    Sounds like our next shared series (none / 0) (#75)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Feb 03, 2018 at 04:47:06 PM EST
    Who is running it Captain?

    Parent
    The director (none / 0) (#77)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Feb 03, 2018 at 05:01:39 PM EST
    We watched both available episodes (none / 0) (#82)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Feb 03, 2018 at 08:32:06 PM EST
    Today and recording the series.

    Parent
    Now watching (none / 0) (#83)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Feb 03, 2018 at 08:33:00 PM EST
    Altered Carbon

    Parent
    Love to know what you think (none / 0) (#87)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Feb 04, 2018 at 08:11:19 AM EST
    I obviously love the look.  I like it more when it's about the police story.  

    Its get a little less gripping for me in the sweeping save the world background stories.
    But I get the need for the BG.

    But I think its an easy A-

    Matt Frewer is one of my favorite characters and he pops up in about episode 4 - 5 as the best character since Max Headroom.

    One of several great AI characters.

    Parent

    Both series (none / 0) (#91)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Feb 04, 2018 at 12:40:54 PM EST
    Are being recorded and part of our couple time in the evenings now. Sci-fi/horror is not my favorite genre, but the writers of both series have obviously figured out how to bridge that gap for your girlfriend now. My husband's pretty excited to have me interested.

    I tried to watch the Strain with spouse, but I just couldn't after a point because the character development I need dropped off.

    It takes me more exposure to develop a comprehensive opinion when watching something in this genre. My artist eye loves the look of both series though.

    I finally saw Wicked when I was in NY with oculus. So I came pre-juiced to start watching both :) The flying monkeys in Wicked were awesome.

    Parent

    Also COUNTERPART (none / 0) (#94)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Feb 04, 2018 at 01:40:08 PM EST
    On STARZ

    Parent
    Just finished season one (none / 0) (#111)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Feb 04, 2018 at 04:54:22 PM EST
    Of ALTERED CARBON.  

    Stick with it.  It pays off.

    My only real complaint with the whole thing was the sister.  Not the character, that was an interesting twist, but the actor.  The casting just didn't work that well for me.

    Parent

    VOX (none / 0) (#112)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Feb 04, 2018 at 06:22:10 PM EST
    The final three episodes of the season are pitch-perfect noir/sci-fi, with Kovacs and his crew embarking on what amounts to a daring heist in hopes of bringing down a massive criminal empire, while Ortega faces down her literal demons. They're full of dark twists and turns, and they make the series' moral universe clear, by emphasizing how important death is to the human experience. I left the season wanting so much more.

    In some ways, I'm sympathetic to what Kalogridis and her team were up against. Deploy all their secrets too early and they'd defeat the purpose of doing this story as a detective drama. But by holding back their cards until it was almost too late, I do think they risked having viewers tune out before they get to the more immediately compelling stuff.

    LINK

    Parent

    Working (none / 0) (#113)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Feb 04, 2018 at 06:24:55 PM EST
    Captain, thanks (none / 0) (#78)
    by KeysDan on Sat Feb 03, 2018 at 06:00:49 PM EST
    for the recommendation.  We are really enjoying the series.  Have only seen "Boy on the Bridge", but have taped the second episode for reviewing tomorrow.   Read the book back in the 90s, but forgot much about it...but, the visuals bring it all back... and to life.  

    Parent
    You should check out (none / 0) (#80)
    by Chuck0 on Sat Feb 03, 2018 at 08:08:45 PM EST
    Babylon Berlin on Netflix. Takes place in early 30s Berlin (Weimar). You can watch it in original Deutsch or English dubbing.

    Parent
    I will do that (none / 0) (#81)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Feb 03, 2018 at 08:19:43 PM EST
    I like this a lot (none / 0) (#132)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 08:25:03 AM EST
    Gorgeous  

    Also while I did not watch the bowl there was a very smart ad for a movie that dropped right after the game.  What a great marketing idea.

    Lastest in the CLOVERFIELD franchise, which I love, THE CLOVERFIELD PARADOX.

    lots on overnight chatter about how it fits into and helps make sense of the other two.  Worth a Google if you are into that sort of thing.

    I say see it.  See them all in no particular order.  

    Parent

    Btw (none / 0) (#134)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 09:07:24 AM EST
    One of the leads happens to be Dr Laslo Kreizler in THE ALIENIST

    Parent
    Thanks for (none / 0) (#193)
    by KeysDan on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 04:11:13 PM EST
    the Babylon Berlin recommendation, started it in binge fashion....excellent.

    Parent
    My review of Altered Carbon (none / 0) (#70)
    by linea on Sat Feb 03, 2018 at 04:05:57 PM EST
    Gatling guns with red lasers pop out of the ceiling and a half dozen bad guys get riddled with bullets - the blood splatter is in slow motion - jazz plays over the sound of guns firing, punches thrown, and the mandatory roundhouse kick. Could have been a scene from The Kingsman. I realize ill-tempered sea bass need lasers, I'm not sure why Gatling guns need lasers.

    Altered Carbon is a Netflix long-form TV show (10 episodes in Series 1). ThIs show borrows imagery and story concept from the Blade Runner and Elysium films. There are lots of machine guns, fists and kicks, and dead bodies. The police seem only mildly curious about all this. And of course, there are lots of drugs, strip clubs, and prostitution to keep the adolescent male viewers entertained.

    Episode 1:
    A mercenary wakes in the future with a new body. In the dystopian future, memories and consciousness is held in digital-memory-storage that can be uploaded to other bodies. A wealthy man wants the mercenary to investigate who tried to kill him. The mercenary takes drugs and goes to a hotel to procure a prostitute where the aforementioned Gatling gun action occurs. Despite all this action, I was pretty bored.

    Episode 2:
    The hotel holographic people play poker with each other. More Blade Runner type scenes. Not sure what the police do, other than collect the bodies and provide a sidekick for the mercenary. More fist fights. The mercenary eats breakfast cereal. The mercenary goes to a brothel called `jack it' and there are boobs. I'm so bored.

    Not interested in watching more.

    Bye, Felicia (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by Zorba on Sat Feb 03, 2018 at 04:40:31 PM EST
    I absolutely love (none / 0) (#76)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Feb 03, 2018 at 04:47:11 PM EST
    The day of the dead "spin up" of the tattooed gang banger granny

    Parent
    Got to see the first episode last night (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by McBain on Sun Feb 04, 2018 at 09:41:02 AM EST
    I liked it just enough to keep watching.  I felt the same way with HBO's Westworld. I made it through 4-5 episodes of that before giving up.  Maybe this one will be different. So far I like the cast.
       

    Parent
    My SciFi list on Netflix (none / 0) (#93)
    by linea on Sun Feb 04, 2018 at 01:13:40 PM EST
    While I'm not a Science Fiction enthusiast, I can recommend these shows on Netflix:

    What Happened to Monday (SciFi film - highly recommend)
    Jonathan Strange & Mr Norell (Alternate Reality series)
    Okja (Film set in the near future)
    Kill Command (SciFi film)

    Parent

    Bu bye (none / 0) (#71)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Feb 03, 2018 at 04:33:31 PM EST
    And actually (none / 0) (#72)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Feb 03, 2018 at 04:34:27 PM EST
    It's called Jack it 0ff

    Parent
    Season (none / 0) (#73)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Feb 03, 2018 at 04:39:38 PM EST
    Please stop the personal attacks (none / 0) (#85)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Feb 03, 2018 at 11:58:57 PM EST
    on McBain. Personal attacks are not allowed here.

    Natalie Wood's death back in the news (none / 0) (#89)
    by McBain on Sun Feb 04, 2018 at 10:04:37 AM EST
    Wood died in 1981 during Thanksgiving weekend off Catalina Island.  She had been on a boat with husband Robert Wagner, friend Christopher Walken and boat captain Dennis Davern.

    Wood's autopsy detailed a number of bruises on her body, which would be consistent with drowning. But "she looked like a victim of assault," says Det. Ralph Hernandez.

    Since the investigation reopened, detectives have traveled twice to Hawaii to comb the yacht for clues, once bringing Davern along to re-enact his version of events -- though Davern has changed his story over the years, sold it to tabloids and collaborated on a tell-all book. The boat is now up for sale.

    Not sure how much luck investigators are going to have unless someone changes their story significantly and claims to have witnessed the actual death.

    Feminist writer criticized for her (none / 0) (#90)
    by McBain on Sun Feb 04, 2018 at 10:45:25 AM EST
    view of #MeToo
    Katie Roiphe raises some interesting questions here.
    Is asking a woman for her phone number an abuse of power? Does the distinction between sleazy behavior and a criminal act matter? Is it OK to try people in the press?  Lots of good and reasonable people will disagree about the answers to these questions.

    If we want a true reckoning, it means listening to authentically conflicting points of view, from both women AND men.  


    She was attacked in social media before her words were even published.
    Before the magazine article had even been published, thousands of people took to Twitter, furious at me for rumors about what might be in the piece. Total strangers called me "a garbage person," "a ghoul," "human scum." They threatened that my career was over and said obscene things not fit for Sunday morning, or any morning. My children, of course, were reading and hearing all of this.

    It's difficult to take a movement seriously when it lacks tolerance for other opinions. Celebrities like Matt Damon have been berated for bringing common sense into the discussion. Others were criticized for not wearing black at the Golden Globes. Bullying people to think, or at least pretend to think, a certain way isn't going to accomplish anything positive.  


    At the risk of being accused (5.00 / 2) (#95)
    by Peter G on Sun Feb 04, 2018 at 01:45:11 PM EST
    of "mansplaining" this to you, McBain, the questions that Prof. Roiphe asks, and which you apparently think are telling ("interesting") ones, are just silly. (Roiphe has made a career, in part, from being a contrarian to other feminists on how and where to place the blame for sexual abuse of women.) Let me try my hand at them:  
       "Is asking a woman for her phone number an abuse of power?" First of all, I don't think this is the essence of any complaint that is typical of #MeToo. But that aside, Yes, if you are a man in a position of power over a younger woman, and you ask her for her private phone number in a way that communicates a desire to strike up a personal, dating-type relationship with her, placing her in the awkward or worse position of fearing for her job or career were she to decline, you are abusing your power.
       "Does the distinction between sleazy behavior and a criminal act matter?" In court it does, but otherwise, no, not particularly. Lots of very bad behavior that should be discouraged, socially condemned, or even grounds for severe consequences (such as loss of employment) is not criminal (fortunately).  
       "Is it OK to try people in the press?" Loaded question. Characterizing good journalism concerning public figures or powerful people engaging in reprehensible conduct that highlights an issue of widespread public importance as "trying people in the press" just puts the rabbit in the hat. There is nothing wrong with exposing corruption and misconduct through fair and accurate journalism, even if there have not already been legal or other proceedings to adjudicate the matter.
       There. Did that help?  

    Parent
    I disagree with most of what you said (1.75 / 4) (#98)
    by McBain on Sun Feb 04, 2018 at 02:28:16 PM EST
    but perhaps it helped that you didn't throw around any significant personal attacks or make any unfounded accusations.  That's a step in the right direction.

    I haven't read much from Roiphe but I like that she dares to take an unpopular position. From Wikipedia

    In her first book, The Morning After, Roiphe argues that in many instances of supposed campus date rape, women are at least partly responsible for their actions...
    ...Why aren't college women responsible for their own intake of alcohol or drugs? A man may give her drugs, but she herself decides to take them...
    ...If a woman's 'judgment is impaired' and she has sex, it isn't always the man's fault; it isn't necessarily always rape."[6]

    I can see why many don't like her but I tend to agree with her take in the quote above. The keywords being "isn't always" and "isn't necessarily".  

    Parent

    But do you agree (5.00 / 2) (#99)
    by MKS on Sun Feb 04, 2018 at 02:53:07 PM EST
    with the position she takes?  Or just like the fact that she makes a "controversial" statement?

    But, really, if you drink too much, you deserve to get raped? Really?

    This is getting worse.

    Parent

    Yes, aparently, you do (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by MKS on Sun Feb 04, 2018 at 02:56:17 PM EST
    agree but equivocate by using weasel words.

    If you drink too much, do you deserve to get mugged in the park when your are staggering or pass out?

    I think you should have stopped a couple of comments ago.  Your comments are way over the line.

    Parent

    Chum (none / 0) (#103)
    by MKS on Sun Feb 04, 2018 at 03:03:40 PM EST
    You do not explain why you agree with the author's comment about women being responsible for their rapes when they are drunk (at least in many instances.)

    Just toss out that comment as drive-by chum. You acknowledge that you understand why many do not like the author. So you knew this comment agreeing with the author would be offensive but you do not even attempt to explain or justify it.

    This is the definition of trolling imo.

    Parent

    Roiphe does not argue that women who drink (none / 0) (#105)
    by Peter G on Sun Feb 04, 2018 at 03:06:14 PM EST
    too much "deserve" to be raped, MKS. She argues that women who choose to drink too much share responsibility for the consequences with the men (some of whom are also drunk) who take advantage of their condition. Just to be fair to her argument.

    Parent
    Replace "deserve" (none / 0) (#106)
    by MKS on Sun Feb 04, 2018 at 03:09:16 PM EST
    with "are to blame in part"?  I am not sure that is really any better.

    I think it really reads as boiling down to or implying that women who drink are fair game. Bottom line.  

    Parent

    You really should not (none / 0) (#107)
    by MKS on Sun Feb 04, 2018 at 03:17:16 PM EST
    walk through the park at night with cash hanging out of your pockets; if you do, you share the blame for getting robbed.

    It is basically blame, at least in part (whatever that means), the victim.

    What I wonder is if this "shared responsibility" doctrine is advocated for any other crimes aside from rape?

    For civil fraud, and in most Ponzi schemes, the guy running the scam relies on his targets being greedy and willing to cut corners. The investors should have known better.

    Parent

    Since when (5.00 / 5) (#102)
    by Peter G on Sun Feb 04, 2018 at 03:03:32 PM EST
    have I been known to "throw around any significant personal attacks or make any unfounded accusations"? Or even insignificant personal attacks, for that matter? Your suggestion that my comment is some sort of improvement over past behavior is confusing to me. And an ad hominem distraction.

    Parent
    There have been a few times (1.00 / 2) (#109)
    by McBain on Sun Feb 04, 2018 at 04:14:17 PM EST
    When you've made insulting comments/claims about me that you couldn't back up. Once you accused me of
    repeated excuse making for rape.
    I didn't appreciate or deserve that.

    Another one had to do with my post about people rushing to judgement. You said I was the only one in TL you ever noticed to rush to judgement, which is absurd.  When I asked if you provide one instance where I did that, you didn't and said it was a waste of your time. I thought that was pretty weak.

    However, my criticism wasn't just about you.  It was about others in TL as well. You're definitely not the worst but while I often appreciate your legal expert opinion, I do think you can be a little phony at times when it comes to message board bad behavior.

    Parent

    Just an FYI, but Jeralyn doesn't approve of (5.00 / 4) (#115)
    by Anne on Sun Feb 04, 2018 at 07:12:54 PM EST
    digging back into other people's comments to use those comments against them.  

    It strikes me that if you can't handle the pushback to the controversial and unpopular issues you have a penchant for raising, you ought to think twice before raising them.

    Going after Peter may be the third rail of TL. Good luck.

    Parent

    Peter asked so I provided information (1.00 / 3) (#116)
    by McBain on Sun Feb 04, 2018 at 07:58:00 PM EST
    I didn't use quotes.  I didn't even link to a specific quote or discussion.  I linked to the entire thread.  As far as I know that is acceptable TL etiquette.

    I don't understand what the third rail of TL is but I do understand Peter is TL royalty. Still, he needs to play by the rules too.

    As for you other post about Matt Damon, Bill Maher had good take on that subject.  Starting around 3:40. We do need to consider sexual violence/abuse on a spectrum.

     

    Parent

    Why do we need a spectrum? (5.00 / 1) (#140)
    by Anne on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 10:42:34 AM EST
    So people like you can keep making the argument that someone's experience wasn't "that bad" compared to what it could have been, or that there are reasons why we shouldn't pay too much attention to claims and accusations?

    Who are you, exactly, to judge if you weren't the object of someone's unwanted and not consensual actions?  Who are you to judge how something like that made someone feel?

    I think a spectrum is a handy little tool for delegitimizing and dismissing women's experiences, and in my opinion, suggesting we "need" a spectrum is a sign of a lack of overall respect for women.

    I'm well aware that we do have a spectrum within the judicial system, that there are degrees of assault for example that carry different punishments.  But this so-called spectrum that's been suggested by Maher and Damon and others does not seem to be for the purpose of meting out punishment to perpetrators, but for making judgments about women, and turning the perpetrators into victims by assigning blame to women in order to invalidate or diminish the accusation/experience.

    Women here, including me, have related experiences that, if they were placed on such a spectrum by someone like you, would be considered minor and not worth addressing.  That approach simply fails to validate women themselves, and perpetuates the idea that we're out to get men, or we're overly emotional, or downright hysterical.

    Such a spectrum will not do one thing to put an end to men believing it is somehow their right to have their way with women - whether it's a kiss, a hug, a pat on the fanny, or rape.

    And for what it's worth, the threads you highlighted didn't so much "prove" your accusations about Peter, as they did confirm the conclusions he - and many of the rest of us - reached a long time ago about your attitudes about women in general.

    Parent

    We need a spectrum so people aren't (2.00 / 1) (#175)
    by McBain on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 02:27:37 PM EST
    punished for something they didn't do or over punished for something they did do. That goes for the court of law, the business world, academia and everything else.
    But this so-called spectrum that's been suggested by Maher and Damon and others does not seem to be for the purpose of meting out punishment to perpetrators, but for making judgments about women, and turning the perpetrators into victims by assigning blame to women in order to invalidate or diminish the accusation/experience.

    I completely disagree.  I found Maher and Damon to be very sincere in what they suggested. I'm not aware of either of them blaming women as you said.

    Parent
    A personal attack on Peter (5.00 / 4) (#118)
    by MKS on Sun Feb 04, 2018 at 08:36:28 PM EST
    He can be "phony,"  McBain writes.

    How you get away with that personal attack, McBain, is beyond me. Especially in light of your trollish comments.

    Parent

    Describing my take on the overall theme (5.00 / 2) (#124)
    by Peter G on Sun Feb 04, 2018 at 10:31:05 PM EST
    of the totality of any one commenter's comments on a certain subject (say, for example, violence against women, or police use of force) is not a "personal" attack on the commenter. It does not address the commenter's character but rather his ideas. And by its nature, the overall assessment is not invalidated by the claim that the person expressing the opinion has no one direct quote at hand to "prove" that the opinion is correct in the form of a verbatim admission by the commenter in question.

    Parent
    I'm sorry (2.00 / 1) (#129)
    by linea on Sun Feb 04, 2018 at 11:40:10 PM EST
    I can't parse the second half of your post. I've read it several times and I can't.

    And by its nature, the overall assessment is not invalidated by the claim that the person expressing the opinion has no one direct quote at hand to "prove" that the opinion is correct in the form of a verbatim admission by the commenter in question.


    Parent
    No reason for you to be sorry (5.00 / 2) (#133)
    by Peter G on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 09:03:47 AM EST
    that my sentence structure was too complex for you. It is entirely my responsibility, when I write for public consumption, if my writing proves incomprehensible to some of the intended audience.

    Parent
    It's a fancy way of saying (1.40 / 5) (#135)
    by McBain on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 09:42:06 AM EST
    he doesn't need to back up his claims.  

    If you call someone out on something specific , you should be able to explain why you did it.  Peter wasn't able to do that on at least two occasions.

    That type of behavior is common on message boards. No one likes to admit they were wrong and no one wants to apologize. I get that.  But what's crazy is when someone pretends to be above that type of childish behavior when they're not.

    Parent

    You were given some (5.00 / 2) (#137)
    by MKS on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 10:07:11 AM EST
    slack and protection and have run with it.

    Your comments here are among the most personal.  I am not so sure this will work long term.

    Parent

    Please God (none / 0) (#139)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 10:16:52 AM EST
    2 fer 1

    Parent
    Yeah, McBain stepped (none / 0) (#104)
    by MKS on Sun Feb 04, 2018 at 03:05:04 PM EST
    in it with that aside.

    Parent
    Camille Paglia covered that ground (5.00 / 1) (#145)
    by jondee on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 11:13:30 AM EST
    in a heavy-handed, scorched earth kinda way, twenty+ years ago.

    Roiphe is a little late to the party, I'd day.

    She's like Dennis Leary making a career on ripping off Bill Hicks.

    Parent

    It is hard to imagine there was even (5.00 / 4) (#108)
    by Anne on Sun Feb 04, 2018 at 04:08:26 PM EST
    a nanosecond when you took the #MeToo movement seriously, on any level, which is why many of us see your comments as being designed to provoke, not elevate or widen the discussion.

    In fact, the sense I get is that you have used #MeToo, #TimesUp as an invitation to disseminate views that make a lot of people's skin crawl.

    As for Matt Damon, he wasn't criticized for bringing "common sense" into the discussion, he was criticized for seeming to believe - among other things - that we need to consider sexual violence/abuse on a spectrum.  Why that was offensive is explained by Alyssa Milano, who points out, as many women also can:

    I have been a victim of each component of the sexual assault spectrum of which you speak. They all hurt. And they are all connected to a patriarchy intertwined with normalized, accepted--even welcomed-- misogyny.

    Duh.

    You can have whatever opinion you want, but just because you have opinions doesn't require anyone else to embrace them, agree with them or respect them.

    As for Katie Roiphe: ditto.  And you know how you're always questioning women's "real" agenda when they accuse men of sexual abuse - why aren't you questioning Roiphe's "real" agenda?  Because you agree with her, that's why.

    Duh.

    But I doubt there is a woman here who would believe for a second that you have real respect for Roiphe-the-woman,as much as you just find her opinions useful in promoting the misogyny that even your dedication to polite rhetoric can't disguise.

    Parent

    Permit me to promote an op-ed in today's NYT (5.00 / 1) (#197)
    by Peter G on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 05:44:58 PM EST
    by a true radical feminist, U.Mich. law prof Catharine MacKinnon, who is one of the most brilliant of my old friends. The op-ed addresses how #MeToo could have the effect of changing sexual harassment law, a legal concept MacKinnon originated with her 1977 book.

    Parent
    Thanks for the excellent article Peter. (5.00 / 1) (#202)
    by fishcamp on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 06:53:21 PM EST
    Ms. MacKinnon sounds like a Scottish lassie since she has the same last name as me.  Her Wiki page reveals how truly bright she is.

    Parent
    Looking for an excuse (none / 0) (#97)
    by MKS on Sun Feb 04, 2018 at 02:01:02 PM EST
    to discredit.

    Just find a couple of examples that supposedly are unreasonable (and Peter shows very well how your example is not unreasonable), and then the whole movement, as McBain explains, is discredited.

    Seek and ye shall find.  So you have an example that you believe discredits the whole Me-too movement.  Done.  Over.  Now, men can be men again. Get lost, feminists.


    Parent

    Bahahaha (none / 0) (#92)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Feb 04, 2018 at 12:54:40 PM EST
    The Republicans are calling the Democratic Rebuttal Memo the Minority Report

    So Nunes Gowdy and King (none / 0) (#96)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Feb 04, 2018 at 01:54:40 PM EST
    Are Precogs in the future imaginary crimes division of the new GOP.

    Parent
    Perhaps (none / 0) (#101)
    by FlJoe on Sun Feb 04, 2018 at 02:58:38 PM EST
    Gowdy's vision is recalculating

    "There is a Russia investigation without a dossier," Gowdy said in an interview that aired Sunday on CBS's "Face the Nation," days after he announced his decision not to seek re-election.

    shooting down the Republican's fairy tale and tRumps crowing about vindication.

    He was oddly specific here  

    the dossier has nothing to do with the meeting at Trump Tower," Gowdy said. "The dossier has nothing to do with an email sent by Cambridge Analytica. The dossier really has nothing to do with George Papadopoulos' meeting in Great Britain. It also doesn't have anything to do with obstruction of justice."
    Listing off some of the greatest hits against tRump. He even implies that obstruction of justice is a real possibility.

    Gowdy is a weasel and has gone into desert the ship mode. Maybe I am reading to much into it, but his words today were oddly non-weasely.


    Parent

    He is an odd one (none / 0) (#110)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Feb 04, 2018 at 04:51:47 PM EST
    I saw the interview.  He has more or less always said a version of that.

    Maybe the smarter one are preparing for life after Trump.  Or maybe he is going to primary him in 20.

    Parent

    What is with JT's outfit (none / 0) (#114)
    by Chuck0 on Sun Feb 04, 2018 at 07:10:01 PM EST
    in the halftime show? He looks like a refugee from Duck Dynasty.

    Costumes by Blain's Farm & Fleet. (none / 0) (#127)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Feb 04, 2018 at 11:05:44 PM EST
    ;-D

    Parent
    Did anyone else catch that Diet Coke (none / 0) (#117)
    by jondee on Sun Feb 04, 2018 at 08:13:21 PM EST
    commercial in the first half with the obviously anorexic young woman?

    At first I thought they might be using CGI for some sort of ill-concieved comic effect, but then I read that Diet Coke is one of the drinks of choice of anorexic girls. Wtf?

    Hahaha (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 08:10:29 AM EST
    Everyone at the party I attended said she really needs a regular coke.

    Parent
    Sorry (2.00 / 1) (#119)
    by linea on Sun Feb 04, 2018 at 08:57:55 PM EST
    _rolleyes_

    Diet Coke is the drink of choice of anorexic girls? Seriously?  

    I googled, and I assume you mean the Diet Coke commercial with Hayley Magnus - an Australian TV and film actress. She's not anorexic. Being thin, rather than fat, isn't anorexic.

    Sorry, but maybe Americans should lose weight rather than redefine thin as anorexic and obese as average.

    Parent

    Sorry, but That thin? (5.00 / 4) (#122)
    by jondee on Sun Feb 04, 2018 at 09:36:04 PM EST
    Are you kidding?

    I've seen footage of people liberated from Belsen who looked better nourished.

    Look at the commercial again.

    Parent

    LoL!! (2.00 / 1) (#126)
    by linea on Sun Feb 04, 2018 at 10:47:43 PM EST
    Okay, you made me laugh with, `people liberated from Belsen who looked better nourished' but really she looks normal to me. She looks great actually. Anorexic isn't a synonym for skinny. It's completely different.

    Parent
    Also (none / 0) (#130)
    by linea on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 01:20:15 AM EST
    Hayley Magnus is wearing retro high waisted (high rise) jeans which is a bit of an optical illusion. She looks fine. She's beautiful.

    For reference: Diet Coke Commercial

    Parent

    She did not look fine. (none / 0) (#136)
    by Anne on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 09:52:50 AM EST
    She looked dangerously thin.  So much so that I remember thinking there had been some kind of distortion to the video, because her legs were like sticks.

    She may be naturally thin, but the thing is that whether she is anorexic or not, her extreme thinness likely serves as a model for young women who aren't naturally thin, and who would have to resort to extreme measures to end up looking like Hayley.

    And Diet Coke, really?  

    Parent

    Absurd (1.00 / 2) (#204)
    by linea on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 07:44:28 PM EST
    I'm sorry that you are so exposed to obesity you are not able to recognize a normal healthy body. And again, anorexia is a medical condition not a synonym for slim.

    Parent
    Maybe some of the obesity problems (none / 0) (#125)
    by jondee on Sun Feb 04, 2018 at 10:33:23 PM EST
    in America have to do with young women despairing at the idea of being fit and healthy altogether because they know no matter what they do they'll never look like Coca Cola's dancing skeleton or the "fabulous" Ivanka.

    Omg! (none / 0) (#128)
    by linea on Sun Feb 04, 2018 at 11:10:54 PM EST
    Ivanka is normal. She's not even close to thin or skinny. And by the way, Melania isn't being treated fairly, in my opinion. She is the first naturalized First Lady and she always looks great. And her outfit at the SOTU was ivory not white.

    I'm not an ana-mia expert, but it's my understanding that it isn't about dieting. I can recommend certain books if you are interested.

    Parent

    I agree (5.00 / 2) (#138)
    by CST on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 10:07:30 AM EST
    That Melania is being treated unfairly - one might even say poorly - by her husband.  But no one can force her to get a divorce.

    Parent
    Treated unfairly? (5.00 / 4) (#142)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 10:52:03 AM EST
    Look, it is the standard in this country for a wife to be held responsible for the sexual improprieties of her husband. See Hillary

    And if a wife chooses to remain married to a husband guilty of sexual improprieties she will be classified an enabler. Also see Hillary

    Parent

    A birther, a plagiarizer, an enabler (5.00 / 3) (#146)
    by Towanda on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 11:17:49 AM EST
    who came to this country to do porn and has lied about it and her credentials but backed anti-immigrant policies -- and already has spent more in our taxes for her trips to spas is hardly being treated unfairly.

    She has taken public stances that are hateful. Her one laudable public stance against bullying is laughable, not only because she has enabled a bully but also because she since has done nothing in her alleged campaign.

    She has taken public funding, our taxes, for trips to spas, in a total cost for her trips that in one year exceeded what her predessors spent in entire terms of office.

    In all this, she has made herself a public figure, opening herself to public criticism. She could have stayed in her golden cage and just shut up.

    Parent

    At the risk of being mean-spirited (5.00 / 3) (#147)
    by jondee on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 11:26:47 AM EST
    Melania deserves Almost everything she gets after parroting Trump's xenophobic/racist bs about Obama's birth certificate.

    She also gets many demerits, in my book, for having such apalling taste in husbands. Though, she could make up for a lot of it she had the good sense to do what a lot of Roman wives are rumored to have done to speed along the passage of their flaccid, boorish spouses.

    Parent

    "She always looks great." (5.00 / 5) (#154)
    by Anne on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 12:41:39 PM EST
    Wow, what a ringing endorsement.  What great meaning she has brought to her position.

    She came here on a tourist visa, and later self-sponsored for a green card because of her "extraordinary ability as a model."  Digest that one for a minute.  Perhaps talk about why America needs more models.  Consider that in a Trump immigration system, she'd be stuck in Slovenia having been found to not merit entry.

    Sadly, she's shown no inclination to offer an immigrant's point of view on the kinds of proposals being suggested.  But, who would notice, considering she always looks so good.

    Suffice it to say there are still questions about Melania's immigration history, and just like her husband's tax returns, Melania's immigration records have not been made available for verification or confirmation of her claims.

    But she looks great.

    She starts dating Trump while he is still married.  Getting a divorce, but still married.

    She is all in on the birther movement.  But she looks great while doing it.

    She delivers a plagiarized speech at the RNC.  I don't know how people could be so mean to someone who looked so good that night.

    She takes on anti-bullying as her signature issue.  Many Americans come close to keeling over at the irony.

    She has soaked the taxpayers for huge amounts of money traveling back and forth from NY to DC, and to Mar-a-:Lago.  She not only looks good, she's good at using other people's money to her own benefit. It's how the rich get richer.

    I don't much care if she married him for love or for money - that's her business - but I do wonder about someone who can love a person of such questionable character, someone who lies, welshes on his financial commitments, cheats on his wives, brags about assaulting women, and has spoken publicly in very crude terms about the lovely and well-dressed Melania.

    Seems like the only major difference between Melania and Stormy was the price.


    Parent

    But, Trump said (5.00 / 2) (#158)
    by KeysDan on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 01:07:36 PM EST
    at a rally on August 8, 1916, that Melania will have a press conference over the next few weeks to clear all this stuff up.

    Parent
    Close to the Russian Revolution, (5.00 / 1) (#159)
    by KeysDan on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 01:09:22 PM EST
    but it should read: August 9, 2016.

    Parent
    Whatever (1.00 / 2) (#205)
    by linea on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 07:54:36 PM EST
    You people can hate whoever you want.

    I'm not required to hate anybody.

    I also personally feel it's pathetic to make the false allegation that she did p0rn but it's not my site so whatever.

    Parent

    Too skinny, too fat, (none / 0) (#150)
    by KeysDan on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 12:08:11 PM EST
    or Goldilocks, don't know.  But, for sure, Ivanka is a lightweight.  

    Parent
    Perhaps (none / 0) (#162)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 02:04:46 PM EST
    A psychic connection.  Of sorts.

    Parent
    This can only be seen as desperation (none / 0) (#141)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 10:49:42 AM EST
    Donald J. Trump
    Donald J. Trump
    @realDonaldTrump
    ·
    4h
    Little Adam Schiff, who is desperate to run for higher office, is one of the biggest liars and leakers in Washington, right up there with Comey, Warner, Brennan and Clapper! Adam leaves closed committee hearings to illegally leak confidential information. Must be stopped


    Donald J. Trump
    Donald J. Trump
    @realDonaldTrump
    ·
    1h
    Representative Devin Nunes, a man of tremendous courage and grit, may someday be recognized as a Great American Hero for what he has exposed and what he has had to endure


    Trying to make sense of his raving is the online equivalent of a snipe hunt. Personally, I find it a damned shame that many in the media have inexplicably chosen to set great store by Trump's posts and instead report on them as though they're some sort of divine revelation, rather than the delusional and misanthropic rants from an emotionally immature kook -- which is what they really are.

    So, Trump's latest musings don't surprise me. Twitter is how he reaches his loyal audience. We can't do anything about that. But the media ought to better control their reactions to it.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    A lot of middle-school, (5.00 / 2) (#152)
    by KeysDan on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 12:22:11 PM EST
    limited bullying adjectives (Little Marco, Liddle Bob Corker, Little Rocket Man, and now Little Schiff), and to top it off, accuses Congressman Schiff, ("Adam" to Trump), of leaking unlawful "confidential", (not "Classified", but then how is the President to know such things).  If this is not enough, Trump says Mr. Schiff "must be stopped."

    Since this is aimed at his sub-par non-golfing friends, this language could result in more danger to Mr. Schiff,  who has already, reportedly, received death threats.

      After all, there was that Trump supporter who got in his truck and drove 300 miles from NC to DC to shoot up the pizza place, where Hillary was selling child slaves out of the  restaurant's basement. Since there was no basement in the pizza place, he just shot up the ground floor dining area.

    Mayhe Melania will get on this bullying as a part of her big contribution to the country. Another chance to wear something from the Clinton Collection.

    Parent

    Tracey Ullman's take on Melania. (5.00 / 1) (#156)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 12:47:39 PM EST
    Tweeting (none / 0) (#163)
    by KeysDan on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 02:07:43 PM EST
    Schiff response (5.00 / 2) (#168)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 02:16:43 PM EST
    Mr. President, I see you've had a busy morning of "Executive Time." Instead of tweeting false smears, the American people would appreciate it if you turned off the TV and helped solve the funding crisis, protected Dreamers or...really anything else.


    Parent
    Thanks for that link Donald. (none / 0) (#203)
    by fishcamp on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 07:10:40 PM EST
    Tracy Ullman is a brilliant comedian whom I had the opportunity to film at the Aspen Comedy Festival years ago.  We wandered around town until she saw something or someone she wanted us to film.  We took an instant liking of each other and hung out around town when on break.  I must mention that everything' she says is always hilarious

    Parent
    Perhaps why (none / 0) (#144)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 11:11:24 AM EST
    Is it time for Republicans to start freaking out?

    More than 40 House Republican incumbents were outraised in the final quarter of 2017 by one -- or several -- of their Democratic opponents, according to the latest round of fundraising numbers. And of that group, more than a dozen had less cash on hand than their Democratic challengers.

    For the GOP, here's the really disturbing part: The trendline is getting worse, not better. Despite the myriad advantages of incumbency and control of Congress, there are more House members with less cash on hand than their Democratic challengers than the quarter before.

    "Those numbers should be concerning for all Republicans," said Mike DuHaime, a GOP consultant based in New Jersey. "This is going to be the most challenging political environment since 2006, so you have to be ready. And lot of these members came in after 2006, so for many, this will be the most challenging environment they've ever run in. And that's going to prove difficult."

    A flood of Democratic money poured into House races across the country in 2017, provided in large part by small-dollar, online contributors animated by opposition to President Donald Trump and the Republican majorities in Congress. More than 80 Democratic challengers in Republican-held districts have at least $250,000 in cash on hand at the end of the year -- a sign that the House battlefield may be wider than previously thought.



    Parent
    I believe that Trey 'Howdy Doody' Gowdy ... (5.00 / 1) (#153)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 12:29:42 PM EST
    ... just announced that he was forgoing his re-election bid. His staff had mailed out fundraising appeal only the day prior. But then came the fallout from the release of the infamous if overblown Nunes memo, for which Gowdy himself has admitted that he was the primary author.

    Just prior to the House Intelligence Committee's party-line vote to release the document, Gowdy was asked by Rep. Mike Quigley (D-IL) whether anyone in the Trump administration was involved in the crafting of the memo, and Gowdy demurred evasively for the public record.

    One has to wonder if the often goofily-coiffed gentleman from South Carolina - who voted for the memo's release - didn't suddenly come to the appalling realization afterward that he's disastrously aligned himself politically with the mother of all clusterphuques.

    This past weekend, Gowdy made a concerted effort on CBS's "Face the Nation" to insulate the Mueller probe from the Nunes memo, insisting that the Special Counsel's inquiry will continue. In the process, he appeared to throw Donald Trump Jr., Jared Kushner, Paul Manafort, Cambridge Analytica, George Papadopoulos and even Trump himself under the proverbial bus:

    "To the extent that the [Nunes memo] deals with the [Steele dossier] and the FISA process, the dossier has nothing to do with the meeting in Trump Tower, the dossier has nothing to do with an email sent by Cambridge Analytica, the dossier has nothing to do with George Papadopoulos' meeting in Great Britain, and it also doesn't have anything to do with obstruction of justice."

    Given his high level of security clearance, Gowdy probably knows better than most of us what Robert Mueller himself knows at this point. His statement confirms what so many of his Republican colleagues are in denial about, which is that Trump & Co. were likely in bed with the Russians and are probably as guilty as sin.

    November holds rich potential to be a real political bloodbath, particularly if Robert Mueller's investigation implicates a lot of Trump's ever-evolving inner circle -- and perhaps even a few congresscritters -- in the burgeoning Trump-Russia conspiracy.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    I dunno. (none / 0) (#151)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 12:20:00 PM EST
    the GOP is so smug and so sure nothing can touch them. Maybe they will understand the money though. I guess giving tax breaks to all those cronies didn't pan out when it comes to donations. Maybe they are expecting Putin to pony up the money for them and that's why they are smug.

    Parent
    Several months ago, (none / 0) (#157)
    by KeysDan on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 01:03:12 PM EST
    Carter Page, Ph.D., adviser to the Kremlin and Trump, stated on "All In With Chris Hayes", that one day soon, Paul Ryan would allow the GOP to expose the ways the FBI colluded with Hillary and the Dossier, to spy on him.  At the time, this statement was just lurking within Page's customary word salad comments. But, now, just that happened. Devin Nunes memo was released with the authority of the Speaker of the House.  Hope Mueller calls Paul Ryan about this.

    None dare call it a riot (none / 0) (#160)
    by Repack Rider on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 01:33:09 PM EST
    Okay, a mostly white crowd of Eagles victory celebrants flipped a police car and vandalized the area for several blocks around Philadelphia's City Hall.

    Where are the police who waded into peaceful BLM or other multi-racial and "liberal" protests with the shields and truncheons?

    Why wasn't it a "riot?"

    The car that was flipped was not a cop car (none / 0) (#161)
    by Peter G on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 01:57:03 PM EST
    A lot more detail here. Tens of thousands of revelers; few vandals. Not really a "riot" overall. That said, Philly cops in recent years have generally been very good with crowds and demonstrations. I don't remember any instance of Philly cops wading into BLM or other demonstrations with truncheons, etc., in recent years (unlike the days of Rizzo). Not like some other cities.

    Parent
    Dow (none / 0) (#164)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 02:09:43 PM EST
    The Dow is down nearly (none / 0) (#165)
    by Chuck0 on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 02:11:16 PM EST
    1500 points at around 1530 EST. Holding my breath waiting for the dotard to take credit.

    After hearing part of a radio interview... (5.00 / 1) (#194)
    by Jack E Lope on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 04:49:54 PM EST
    ...of Jerome Powell last week, I wondered if he would turn that soaring stock market around.  I did not know that he was to be sworn in today.

    Powell was talking about his plan to undo The Fed's holdings from Quantitative Easing and to increase interest rates multiple times - and sounded as if he would not pay much attention to collateral damage.  When he has spoken to the press, he has expressed a desire to cut income taxes and cut "entitlement spending" - which is not a concern of The Fed.

    It sounds as if he wants to do whatever The Fed can do to keep tax revenues low and unemployment rates high.

    Parent

    Just heard (none / 0) (#195)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 04:57:41 PM EST
    Futures indicate a lower open tomorrow.

    Parent
    Housing market would also be destroyed (none / 0) (#198)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 05:48:44 PM EST
    AGAIN

    Parent
    Of course. (none / 0) (#201)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 06:19:08 PM EST
    We are going to be selling in a couple of years. I guess we will be here because if the interest rates go up there's no point. We'll be paying more for less. Right now we want to pay less for less.

    You're renting aren't you? Of course if your hubby retires you might get stuck dealing with some of this too.

    Parent

    Yeah (none / 0) (#166)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 02:13:54 PM EST
    They are saying if he takes credit for the good he has to take credit for the bad.

    Clearly they have not been paying attention

    Parent

    Breaking News (none / 0) (#169)
    by Chuck0 on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 02:17:30 PM EST
    I blame Jeff Sessions (none / 0) (#170)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 02:20:30 PM EST
    Back below 900

    Parent
    950 (none / 0) (#171)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 02:22:01 PM EST
    Do I get 1000 before 4 pm?

    Parent
    BOOM (none / 0) (#172)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 02:22:26 PM EST
    1007

    Parent
    We could seriously (none / 0) (#174)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 02:23:42 PM EST
    Be back before 1500 before closing

    Parent
    It an undeniable truth (none / 0) (#176)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 02:32:56 PM EST
    That Trump has had a lot of slack cut because of the economy

    This could be much worse for him than the average correction

    Parent

    Harley Davidson is closing their assembly (none / 0) (#178)
    by Chuck0 on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 02:40:16 PM EST
    plant in Kansas City. Funny how the dotard doesn't tweet about that stuff. Carrier (the dotards supposed "success" story) has recently announced layoffs. The con job just keeps on giving.

    Parent
    -1175 (none / 0) (#180)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 02:42:53 PM EST
    At closing

    Parent
    Oops (none / 0) (#181)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 02:43:23 PM EST
    1178.2

    Parent
    Largest INTRADAY drop (none / 0) (#182)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 02:46:30 PM EST
    Ever.  Tweet that dumbazz

    Parent
    While we can all appreciate (none / 0) (#184)
    by CST on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 02:49:07 PM EST
    A little schadenfreude on our Tweeter-in-chief's behalf, using points to describe historical drops is just bad math.

    Parent
    I cant do a damn thing about (none / 0) (#185)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 02:53:55 PM EST
    The market and neither can Asshat.  But he has made it his and I will damn well enjoy his wearing it.

    Parent
    No arguing with that (none / 0) (#186)
    by CST on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 02:57:21 PM EST
    The best part is that it was all rather predictable.

    Parent
    Exactly (none / 0) (#187)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 03:01:42 PM EST
    That's been said 50 times in the last hour.  Stocks are way overdue.

    But some smart people are saying this is probably not over.

    And my point is live by the sword die by the sword.

    Parent

    Yep. The biggest one-day percentage-wise ... (none / 0) (#190)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 03:46:48 PM EST
    ... was October 19, 1987, aka "Black Monday," when the New York Stock Exchange-DJIA shed 508 points, or the equivalent of 22.7% of its overall value.

    That one belongs Ronald Reagan, the late pastor at Our Lady of Rosy Scenarios, and patron saint of the modern Republican Party.

    ;-D


    Parent

    Just more proof that Soros (none / 0) (#200)
    by jondee on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 06:14:25 PM EST
    and his minions will stop at nothing in the furtherance of their NWO agenda.

    Parent
    It's Mueller's fault. (none / 0) (#167)
    by Chuck0 on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 02:15:05 PM EST
    Or Hillary. No, Obama. Er. Rosenstein. Maybe Ted Cruz did it.

    Parent
    Buy the dip. (none / 0) (#173)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 02:22:47 PM EST
    In other news bad for Trump (none / 0) (#188)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 03:06:29 PM EST
    The house is expected to vote this hour to release the corrected memo.

    And it will then be up to Trump to release it or not.

    Win win.

    Unanimous vote (5.00 / 1) (#196)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 04:58:32 PM EST
    Sends Schiff memo to the white house.

    Parent
    The word Andersonville (none / 0) (#207)
    by jondee on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 08:20:17 PM EST
    comes to mind.

    Just corporate America's little way (none / 0) (#208)
    by jondee on Mon Feb 05, 2018 at 08:26:50 PM EST
    of saying "just buy our sh*t and f*ck off, mindless ditzes."