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Friday Night Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Fri Jun 26, 2015 at 07:47:42 PM EST
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I've been offline working all day and just saw the news about the Supreme Court's historic same-sex marriage decision. Thanks to BTD for putting up a thread on it. Here are the last two paragraphs of Justice Kennedy's opinion:

....the Court also must hold—and it now does hold—that there is no lawful basis for a State to refuse to recognize a lawful same-sex marriage performed in another State on the ground of its same-sex character.

[More...]

No union is more profound than marriage, for it embodies the highest ideals of love, fidelity, devotion, sacrifice, and family. In forming a marital union, two people become something greater than once they were. As some of the petitioners in these cases demonstrate, marriage embodies a love that may endure even past death. It would misunderstand these men and women to say they disrespect the idea of marriage. Their plea is that they do respect it, respect it so deeply that they seek to find its fulfillment for themselves. Their hope is not to be condemned to live in loneliness, excluded from one of civilization’s oldest institutions. They ask for equal dignity in the eyes of the law. The Constitution grants them that right.

With different Supreme Court justices, this decision could have gone the other way. We get the Government we elect. Considering that Presidents nominate Supreme Court justices who serve for life, every presidential election is hugely significant. Just another reminder of why no one should take a pass on voting for President.
The country cannot afford another Justice Alito.

Again, this is an open thread, all topics welcome.

< SCOTUS Rules Constitution Requires Marriage Equality | Sunday Open Thread >

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    Who doesn't like Bree Newsome? (5.00 / 3) (#56)
    by Repack Rider on Sat Jun 27, 2015 at 11:48:02 PM EST
    Scaled the pole in front of the state house and cut down the flag.  Got arrested.  Will never again have to pay for a beer in that state.  So many people are ponying up to pay the fine for her that she will show a profit.  More cojones than the male population of Guadalajara.

    Go girl.

    If previous gummint overreaction is any guide, there will now be a 24 hour guard placed on the hated rag, drawing even more attention to the issue.

    I hope Dylann Roof (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 28, 2015 at 07:43:38 AM EST
    is being given access to news.  I hope get he can follow every detail of the reporting of the success of his attempt to start a race war.  Which has succeeded in doing what decades of activism has been unable to do.   Get the symbol of division he was so fond if taken down from poles and retail shelves across the south.

    Parent
    The (none / 0) (#62)
    by FlJoe on Sun Jun 28, 2015 at 08:41:11 AM EST
    Karmic irony would be a bitter pill for him to swallow.

    I know it's only a symbol, but I can't really ever recall such a sudden sea change in conventional wisdom. It's like Roof flipped a switch and the powers that be finally saw light. From the corporate boardrooms to the state houses to the lizard brain of Republicans, eyes have opened from a decades long amnesia.  A sudden bright light has even penetrated the usual smoke and mirror, both- siderism narratives of most of the infotainment outlets.

    Breathtaking in a uniquely American way but will it result in real change beyond the symbolism?

    Parent

    It will (none / 0) (#67)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Jun 28, 2015 at 11:40:59 AM EST
    not result in any change among certain groups of people. However it changes a lot politically. No longer can someone George W. Bush go to SC and give dog whistles about "states rights" regarding the flag. No candidate can do what Ronald Reagan did and call Jefferson Davis a personal hero. No longer can someone run a Willie Horton type ad and not look like a racist.

    That being said I'm sure there are going to be some clown car candidates who see defending the flag as a gold mine for votes but it's going to scream loud and clear what they are regarding the rest of the country.

    Parent

    For (none / 0) (#68)
    by FlJoe on Sun Jun 28, 2015 at 12:36:00 PM EST
    sure their whole "southern strategy" lies in tatters, the evangelicals can't be happy with the marriage ruling and the TP's are still getting O-care crammed down various orifices. All in all a major downer week for the Republican base.

    I agree that one or more of the clowns will "go there" and pick up the whistle and hope only the "correct" people hear it. I imagine the boys at Duck Dynasty are working on some new models even as we speak.

    I am guessing Walker, only because he seems the perfect one to channel the ghost of Nixon from a
    Shakespearean angle. Hopefully as the last act of the Republican tragedy.  

    Parent

    Nixon, whatever his other faults (none / 0) (#69)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sun Jun 28, 2015 at 12:52:52 PM EST
    was not only a college graduate, but played poker in his off-hours during his time in the South Pacific during WWII to make some extra money.  A family friend served in the same theater and told us that the word got around that he was very good at it.

    When he came back home to Southern CA, Nixon used that money for his first run for Congress.

    Walker is an empty suit just waiting for Koch money to fill him out.

    Parent

    Nixon and Poker (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by Repack Rider on Sun Jun 28, 2015 at 04:36:02 PM EST
    [Nixon] played poker in his off-hours during his time in the South Pacific during WWII to make some extra money.

    If his political career is any guide, he won because he cheated.

    In 1952 my mother told me she was voting for Adlai Stevenson.  She liked "Ike," but she said that Nixon was a crook.  20 years ahead of her time, she got the last laugh, because she is now 95 and still hates him.

    Parent

    Nope, he was a very savvy guy. (none / 0) (#79)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sun Jun 28, 2015 at 05:00:50 PM EST
    When he got into Duke Law School he counted several Ph Beta Kappa keys in his class, and was panicked. His brother Donald told him not to worry, as "You've got an iron b*tt"

    It's all in An Evening With Richard Nixon by Gore Vidal, who you can hardly say was a Nixon fan.

    Parent

    Of course (none / 0) (#71)
    by FlJoe on Sun Jun 28, 2015 at 01:37:28 PM EST
    you used to have to be good at the game to play at the Presidential game, now you just need a friendly billionaire or two. Nixon was good at the game(and most would say dirty), Walker, or any of them for that matter are really not that good. However they apparently are operating in a sellers market.

    Parent
    It's been an amazing week, Captain. (none / 0) (#65)
    by Mr Natural on Sun Jun 28, 2015 at 11:30:26 AM EST
    A lot of hoped for change culminating in one week's events.

    Parent
    I (none / 0) (#59)
    by FlJoe on Sun Jun 28, 2015 at 07:10:17 AM EST
    pretty much saw that one coming, a wonderful piece of civil disobedience, somewhere MLK is smiling.

    Meanwhile more ominously ( and curiously under the radar):

    At least three[black churches] have been intentionally set on fire in recent days, according to a survey of news reports compiled by the Daily Kos.
    , somewhere MLK weeps.

    After a week of euphoric victories over bigotry we all need to come back to the real world and realize  that the misanthropes still exist and by now their hatred has undoubtedly reached a white hot intensity.

    These haters are being thrown under the bus with stunning quickness by their traditional enablers. They are cornered, they are desperate, calling them armed an dangerous is probably an understatement.

    I hope I am wrong, but I see trouble ahead.

    Parent

    the count is really 5, possibly 6 (none / 0) (#63)
    by Palli on Sun Jun 28, 2015 at 10:06:47 AM EST
    but, you know fires, they can't see racism

    Parent
    Thrown under the bus is right. (none / 0) (#66)
    by Mr Natural on Sun Jun 28, 2015 at 11:37:16 AM EST
    (if you're talking about the pols who flipped sides on the Con-Flag.)  

    This makes the public positions those pols have held for so many years even more disgusting.  If they'd actually believed any of their B/S they'd have fought for it.  But no.  They didn't give a rip.  They never did.  It was pandering & jingoism to serve their own self-serving behinds.

    Parent

    The GOP (5.00 / 2) (#75)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Jun 28, 2015 at 02:59:20 PM EST
    must be using Lindsey as a lightening rod for the party, the guy who takes the heat because he has no chance of winning the GOP primary. Today he announced that the GOP should take the constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage out of the GOP platform. He is right though. It is going to hurt the GOP in 2016. However his voters are saying if you stand with God you don't care about such things. This is what comes of fusing religion and politics. It is going to be an explosion.

    This (none / 0) (#1)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Jun 26, 2015 at 08:06:53 PM EST
    last week and a half has been such a week to follow politics. So many lows like the shooting in Charleston and highs like the SSM decision today.  

    Another high: President Obama's eulogy t (5.00 / 4) (#2)
    by oculus on Fri Jun 26, 2015 at 08:22:31 PM EST
    today in Charleston. Very moving.

    Parent
    Another low (none / 0) (#3)
    by FlJoe on Fri Jun 26, 2015 at 08:24:58 PM EST
    TPP

    Parent
    Another high: SCOTUS upholding (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by oculus on Fri Jun 26, 2015 at 08:30:28 PM EST
    the ACA. Again.

    Parent
    I (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by FlJoe on Fri Jun 26, 2015 at 08:55:24 PM EST
    guess any week where  the stars and bars is stricken and the rainbow is hoisted is indeed a good week. The social conservatives are getting their ass kicked on all fronts....meanwhile the oligarchy marches on.

    Parent
    Well, don't just stand there! Do something! (none / 0) (#15)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jun 26, 2015 at 10:54:31 PM EST
    C'mon, run to get in front of them, and then stick your foot out to trip them as they pass by.

    ;-D

    Parent

    That's not the Stars and Bars (none / 0) (#16)
    by unitron on Fri Jun 26, 2015 at 11:08:34 PM EST
    The Stars and Bars has no diagonal elements.

    Flags of the Confederate States of America

    Parent

    They haven't voted on TPP (none / 0) (#9)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jun 26, 2015 at 09:01:56 PM EST


    Parent
    I (none / 0) (#10)
    by FlJoe on Fri Jun 26, 2015 at 09:10:29 PM EST
    know but they sure greased the wheels with this bums rush aka fast track.

    Parent
    Fast Track started 40 years ago (none / 0) (#11)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jun 26, 2015 at 09:44:11 PM EST


    Parent
    The problem isn't the TPP (none / 0) (#80)
    by NYShooter on Sun Jun 28, 2015 at 07:24:08 PM EST
    The problem is the answer to the question:

    Can we trust our government?

    The idea behind the TPP is a good one. Since the area of the world where the greatest growth will occur going forward is Asia, and the TPP covers 40% of the trade taking place there, it makes good sense for The U.S. to be involved.  And, the goal, from the U.S's point of view, is not to open up our markets to foreign countries, we already have the most open markets with the fewest barriers of all our trading partners. Our goal is to open up their markets to our companies. So, if all goes according to plan, this should result in a greater amount of goods and services being sold by American companies, and, should result in many new jobs opening up for American workers.

    Also, we are told that many of the unintended consequences resulting from past trade agreements have been addressed, and fixed, in this new one. And, another major plus for us would be that the incentive American companies now enjoy whereby they can set up foreign subsidiaries in which to park their profits, and avoid U.S. taxes, would be eliminated. That should add many Billions of dollars to our Treasury, instead of that money languishing in foreign bank accounts.

    Now, for all the reasons I just mentioned, we should be looking forward to the signing of this agreement with great hope & anticipation. But, isn't it sad, due to all the secrecy, how something this potentially good, and this potentially beneficial, for so many people comes down to the answer for this one question:

    Can we trust our government?

    Parent

    I'm guessing (as you might presume also) (none / 0) (#81)
    by christinep on Sun Jun 28, 2015 at 07:33:33 PM EST
    that any citizen that is asked your answer-itself question in any country has the answer.  If so, would we ever get anywhere as a global economy.

    Not being too idealistic on my part, but: Can we trust ourselves?  Do we trust ourselves to pay attention as the several years roll on?

    Parent

    C Span: (none / 0) (#4)
    by oculus on Fri Jun 26, 2015 at 08:29:10 PM EST
    link

    Parent
    Yes, it's been a truly amazing week. (none / 0) (#58)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Jun 28, 2015 at 05:10:09 AM EST
    And political cartoonist John Darkow has rather neatly summed it up for us.

    Parent
    Something is bothering me about (none / 0) (#72)
    by ruffian on Sun Jun 28, 2015 at 02:51:28 PM EST
    equating the very real progress of the SCOTUS decisions with the symbolic act of removing Confederate flags. While I certainly applaud the flag removal, I don't think it is the result of any real change in racist attitudes or actions, or at least it is way too soon to tell. I'm afraid the horror of a week ago Wednesday is being too soon overshadowed. Grandmothers were gunned down in their own church. Nothing makes that feel better.

    Parent
    It is (none / 0) (#74)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Jun 28, 2015 at 02:56:10 PM EST
    no change in attitudes I can guarantee you that. Just go to Nikki Haley's or Lindsey Graham's Facebook page and see what their constituents are saying and frankly if Roof had not taken pictures of himself waving the confederate flag it would still be waving high in SC. They were playing with fire though because sooner or later the culture and the people that they have been enabling were going to do something like this. So they have literally been burned. They've been burned by the tragic shooting and now they're being burned by the constituents.

    If only they had done the right thing back when it was first debated and hadn't continued to defend that decision they might not be in this mess.

    Parent

    I don't think the cartoonist was equating the two. (none / 0) (#76)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Jun 28, 2015 at 04:20:46 PM EST
    Rather, he merely sought to convey his amazement at the entire breadth and scope of this week's events, which began with an outpouring of public revulsion toward overt symbols of racism such as the Confederate flag, and ended with the Supreme Court's historic ruling legalizing marriage quality for everyone.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    That is How I Viewed it... (none / 0) (#83)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Jun 29, 2015 at 11:55:57 AM EST
    ...replacing hate with love and the flags are nothing more than an easy symbol of that.

    I also suspect with the courts siding with the left, feet are digging in on the flag in SC for no other reason that a needed 'victory' against the commies.

    Parent

    I talked (none / 0) (#87)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jun 29, 2015 at 12:40:16 PM EST
    to a friend of mine who lives in SC and she said don't count on it coming down. If it had come down immediately it would probably be down but as I understand it it's going to be six months now before they even debate taking it down.

    Parent
    They Could Have Voted on it... (none / 0) (#90)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Jun 29, 2015 at 12:59:04 PM EST
    ...instead they voted to discuss it in the future.  Meaning they weren't voting until the people could speak.

    I'll take wagers it's doesn't come down.

    Parent

    I'll take the bet (none / 0) (#92)
    by CoralGables on Mon Jun 29, 2015 at 01:16:27 PM EST


    Parent
    $20 to the Talk Left... (none / 0) (#97)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Jun 29, 2015 at 04:05:10 PM EST
    ...fund, with a timeline of 6 months, say 12.31.2015 or after they vote, whichever comes sooner.

    To be clear, the flag has to me moved off the SC Capital grounds permanently as in it's not flow on this or that date.

    Parent

    I presume you mean "flown" (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by CoralGables on Mon Jun 29, 2015 at 05:31:24 PM EST
    Deal. I say it will definitely be down before the end of the year.

    Parent
    Although the vote date can't be the date. (none / 0) (#99)
    by CoralGables on Mon Jun 29, 2015 at 05:34:02 PM EST
    It could be removed soon after. It will be voted in the legislature to be removed, they will have the votes, and will be removed this year

    Parent
    Deal... (none / 0) (#124)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Jun 30, 2015 at 11:01:31 AM EST
    ...can't remember the last bet I wished I would lose.  

    Yes I meant flown.  I put an end date so if it's still flying there is no ,'but someday...'

    Vote day seems like the logical day to settle and I will pay if they vote to take it down at some future date.

    If the KKK does demonstrate, I am done without a doubt, but I don't think they are that stupid.

    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#101)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jun 29, 2015 at 05:51:24 PM EST
    I hope you are right and I am wrong but something like 62% of the residents of SC support the confederate flag. And they are going to say for months that the flag didn't kill anybody and they are erasing history and it is a cultural cleansing of the south. And they are screaming at the top of their lungs.

    Parent
    So ... I read today that the KKK (5.00 / 2) (#105)
    by christinep on Mon Jun 29, 2015 at 07:31:05 PM EST
    is planning to hold a rally on the South Carolina grounds about the issues (saying that the CSA flag is the symbol for white people.)  When I saw that, it occurred to me ... what an impetus to bring that symbol down.  In terms of public appearance, anyway, nothing like those pointy white hoods to bring about the public demise of that symbol.  (And, it does make it a little hard even for Repubs to defend, doesn't it :) )

    Parent
    Planned for mid July (none / 0) (#106)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 29, 2015 at 07:34:49 PM EST
    im thinkin they will have to bring their own flag.   They will have it down before that happens.
    You are correct, it rather settles the argument.

    Parent
    July 18th is the planned date (none / 0) (#107)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 29, 2015 at 07:37:32 PM EST
    the flag will be down before July 18th.

    Parent
    They better (none / 0) (#108)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jun 29, 2015 at 08:09:56 PM EST
    get on the stick if they are going to get that flag down by the time the KKK rally comes around. They are going to have to start the debate next week after the holidays and then have the vote immediately after and then immediately take down the flag.

    Parent
    ha - a BYOF rally? (none / 0) (#111)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 29, 2015 at 08:32:13 PM EST
    Let's hope so. I'm not making any bets.

    Parent
    (channeling Dubya Dubya III) (none / 0) (#121)
    by Mr Natural on Mon Jun 29, 2015 at 10:22:47 PM EST
    "heh heh; Ah call y'all mah base..."

    Parent
    I think before that (none / 0) (#102)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 29, 2015 at 05:52:53 PM EST


    Parent
    To be honest Capt (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by CoralGables on Mon Jun 29, 2015 at 05:56:03 PM EST
    I wold have taken the bet if it was by the end of the summer, but either way I think the vote to take it down will pass.

    Parent
    From looking (none / 0) (#109)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jun 29, 2015 at 08:14:52 PM EST
    at the legislative calendar they adjourned June 23rd and are not currently in Columbia. Haley would either have to call a special session or they will just continue on with their schedule to debate it coming down six months from now.

    Parent
    I hope you are right (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 29, 2015 at 08:26:42 PM EST
    i really do.  I can't imagine anything more perfect than a KKK rally outside the state house essentially in support of the party in power.

    I just don't think they are stupid enough to allow it to happen.

    I would love to be wrong.

    Parent

    Plus, no better proof about the toxic meaning of (5.00 / 2) (#118)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 29, 2015 at 09:48:48 PM EST
    flag than to have a bunch of Klansman parading it around the capital.  So done want to tell me again that it is not a racist symbol?

    Parent
    At this (none / 0) (#117)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jun 29, 2015 at 09:17:50 PM EST
    point it may be beyond anyone's control I'm not sure how much notice Haley has to give to do a special session and I can't find anything on whether she's called one or not.

    Parent
    I believe a special session begins next Monday (none / 0) (#115)
    by CoralGables on Mon Jun 29, 2015 at 09:04:57 PM EST
    Bills have been drawn up in both the House and the Senate

    Parent
    I can't find anything on it. (none / 0) (#116)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jun 29, 2015 at 09:16:02 PM EST
    All I can find is that Haley wanted the legislature to get rid of it before they convened on June 26th but all they did was kick the can down the road. And I can't find anything about her calling a special session.

    Parent
    This from CBS news (none / 0) (#119)
    by CoralGables on Mon Jun 29, 2015 at 09:57:04 PM EST
    Legislators are expected to return to Columbia on Monday to consider Haley's budget vetoes and take up legislation that would remove the flag.

    Another site says they will meet a week from Monday.

    There are currently 123 legislators in the House and 45 in the Senate.

    The exact number needed to pass a bill is uncertain. The two-thirds requirement applies to whoever is present and voting at the time.

    I suspect an overwhelming majority (80%+) of those that are present will vote to remove it with some finding the need for an antacid just as the vote hits the docket, thereby missing the vote.

    Parent

    I never realized (none / 0) (#120)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jun 29, 2015 at 10:05:02 PM EST
    how screwed up SC's budget is until I started looking into the flag. The legislative session in SC was supposed to end May 26th but it was already past and still in session when the shootings happened.

    I guess you are better at googling than I am. :)

    Parent

    I have (had) close ties (none / 0) (#122)
    by CoralGables on Mon Jun 29, 2015 at 10:51:11 PM EST
    My daughter lived there until last Friday.

    Parent
    Probably you are right (none / 0) (#112)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 29, 2015 at 08:34:39 PM EST
    I am known for not really getting cartoons...much to the chagrin of a good friend who wanted to do cartoons and kept having me 'review' them. Just not my thing.

    I'd rather read your words about it..I'm a wordie.

    Parent

    Mosby disputes motion to move trial (none / 0) (#6)
    by McBain on Fri Jun 26, 2015 at 08:48:24 PM EST
    http://tinyurl.com/pcv3g25

    "They misconceive the meaning of juror 'impartiality' in high-publicity cases, incorrectly equating knowledge of a crime with prejudgment of the accused,"

    Bad idea to fight this motion. This trial needs to be moved.  Ideally, the jurors will know little or nothing about the incident.  

    the Boston Marathon bomber trial was not moved. (none / 0) (#8)
    by leap on Fri Jun 26, 2015 at 08:58:35 PM EST
    I thought if any should have been, THAT one should have been. Who in the Boston area would not have known, or had an opinion, about that horrible event? But then, I am a layperson. What do I know.

    Parent
    Yeah, but you can't have a trial (none / 0) (#17)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri Jun 26, 2015 at 11:14:59 PM EST
    Locally when the perps are cops and the deceased is an African-American with a record of minor crimes.  After all, this is America, isn't it?</s>

    Parent
    So, what's your point? (none / 0) (#20)
    by NYShooter on Fri Jun 26, 2015 at 11:59:14 PM EST
    Regarding moving the trial:
    "I thought if any should have been, THAT one should have been."

    Are you saying that the verdict, and punishment, proves that he didn't get a fair trial?

    Or,

    are you saying the verdict & punishment were correctly adjudicated, and proves that the defendant got a fair trial?

    Parent

    I didn't take leap's comment (none / 0) (#96)
    by sj on Mon Jun 29, 2015 at 02:27:31 PM EST
    to say anything about the verdict, only the trial and pre-judgments. Of course, leap, if I misunderstood, be kind.

    Parent
    What a load of fairy tale bs (none / 0) (#12)
    by Redbrow on Fri Jun 26, 2015 at 10:17:54 PM EST
    No union is more profound than marriage, for it embodies the highest ideals of love, fidelity, devotion, sacrifice, and family. In forming a marital union, two people become something greater than once they were. As some of the petitioners in these cases demonstrate, marriage embodies a love that may endure even past death.

    The highest ideals? After deat? Really?

    Leave the fairytale pseudo spiritual/religious  nonsense to non-government entities.

    The government has no business being involved in marriage in any form, idealizing couples, giving them special rights and tax privileges.

    It discriminates against single people, poly amorous and polygamists.

    Sorry (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by Repack Rider on Fri Jun 26, 2015 at 11:46:41 PM EST
    ...to hear about your marriage.

    Parent
    Sure. Make jokes. (none / 0) (#21)
    by Redbrow on Sat Jun 27, 2015 at 01:04:44 AM EST
    Couplist privilege.

    If only I could be the right person co-dependent with. My partner and I could evolve into a new higher being and achieve profound happiness that would last even after death.

    Or maybe end in bitter divorce like most marriages.

    The biggest winner today was the 50 billion dollar divorce industry.


    Parent

    Ouch. You sound like you're in pain. (5.00 / 2) (#25)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jun 27, 2015 at 04:43:01 AM EST
    Okay, even though we're obviously laboring under the cloak of anonymity here, I'm going to take a chance and open up, because I can't believe that these dark comments of yours about marriage just came to you from out of the blue. There's likely a backstory, and it's probably not a pretty one.

    So, whatever happened, I'm sorry that you've been hurt. And I'm sorry that someone else's sarcasm / levity here didn't help and the jab likely made the pain worse. For what it's worth, I'm sure he really didn't mean to do that. He just didn't know.

    Now, that said, please understand that expressing caustic bitterness at someone else's moment of joy is not going to make you feel any better. Further, feeling sorry for yourself for any extended period of time is really not a healthy place to be emotionally, never mind that it also doesn't solve anything.

    I'm assuming that you apparently had a relationship that's now over. Perhaps it ended very badly with regrets and recriminations. Or perhaps it just ended abruptly for reasons yet to be fully understood by you, and you don't quite know how what you once thought to be Lover's Lane turned into this cul-de-sac at the bottom of a canyon.

    Whatever happened, it probably felt or still feels like the end of the world. But please understand that it's not the end of the world. As one door closes, others surely open. Life works that way.

    Sometimes, personal human interaction gets pretty messy, even though you didn't intend it to turn out that way and honestly thought that you gave it your best shot. You think that makes you unique? You're not alone here.

    My three siblings and I have had ten marriages between us. Now, some would say that we're hardly ones to be advising anyone about relationships. Rather, I'd say that our track record shows that we never gave up on ourselves.

    The best advice I can offer to you right now is do exactly that, don't give up on yourself. And further, stop beating up on yourself over the past. Instead, start working toward acceptance of what happened, and then get right back out there and into the swing of things. Start socializing again, even if it's just calling up a friend or two and going out to lunch or dinner with them.

    And because all that is sometimes easier said than done, please don't be afraid to seek professional help if you're having trouble accepting, letting go and moving on with your life. That's what I ultimately had to do, and I'll admit that while self-confrontation and self-revelation can be painful, it was the best thing I ever did. Shedding all that baggage made me feel 100 lb. lighter afterward.

    Life is meant to be lived, and not wallowed in grief and self-pity. There's somebody out there just waiting to meet you, who desires love and happiness and companionship, just as you do -- but that's not going to happen if you choose to hang out in a dark place, with the shades drawn and the lights off.

    So as you read this, please realize that -- CAUTION: Overused Platitude Ahead -- today is the first day of the rest of your life. Christ, no matter how sincere it's delivered, that's still a cheesy line!

    Nevertheless, approach this day and experience it with the idea that you are a good person who matters. Treat yourself accordingly with Aloha, and make it a good day. Then, lather, rinse and repeat, one day at a time.

    Trust me, it does get better. You deserve to be happy and content. And don't ever let anyone tell you otherwise -- especially your own self.

    Take care. Aloha.

    Parent

    I am so sorry for your pain (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by jbindc on Mon Jun 29, 2015 at 08:11:23 AM EST
    But most marriages don't end in divorce, so maybe that's something to give you hope.  The "50%" statistic is in fact, a myth.

    And hopefully, many of these couples who have waited so long to see this day, will have put a lot of thought into the marriage, and not just the wedding, so hopefully, they too, will stay married in high percentage.

    I know it's hard to be positive about love, but the odds are in your favor.

    Parent

    How come divorce is an industry (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jun 30, 2015 at 09:05:37 AM EST
    And marriage is an institution for some people?

    Ever watch Bridzillas?  Marriage is an industry that sends some people to an institution :)

    Parent

    hey, people can still live together (none / 0) (#22)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Jun 27, 2015 at 01:41:54 AM EST
    even cats and dogs, despite the warning we were given about such things in Ghostbusters.

    Parent
    hey Redbrow (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by The Addams Family on Sat Jun 27, 2015 at 02:56:42 AM EST
    i disagree with you, though i don't have any need to change your mind

    but can you just give us the weekend to celebrate? please? & not rain on our (literal) parade?

    much obliged

    Parent

    A. D. F. (5.00 / 3) (#24)
    by NYShooter on Sat Jun 27, 2015 at 03:14:42 AM EST
    I don't think Redbrow "gets it."

    He might very well be right in all he states, but, having the choice makes all the difference in the world.

    Parent

    Happy Pride Weekend, Addams, ... (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jun 27, 2015 at 04:56:41 AM EST
    ... from my family to yours. These are great days, and we wish we could be there in person with you and the rest of our sisters and brothers to celebrate. Enjoy.

    Parent
    Single parents (none / 0) (#13)
    by Redbrow on Fri Jun 26, 2015 at 10:39:00 PM EST
    Embody lower ideals of love, devotion, sacrifice and family?

    They can never hope to achieve the "highest ideals" of the magical couple?

    Parent

    Nothing in the majority opinion (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by Peter G on Sat Jun 27, 2015 at 05:59:29 PM EST
    remotely justifies your criticism or mischaracterization, Redbrow.

    Parent
    OMG... (none / 0) (#84)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Jun 29, 2015 at 12:10:59 PM EST
    ...yeah now it's us single white guys at the bottom of the discrimination ladder.  Beyond being absolutely ridiculous, well nothing beyond that really.

    The good news, we can marry our men friends if we really need tax breaks that bad.  I do not, as a matter of fact, I kinda like that I pay more than my fare share.  It's the cost of doing business, aka not being chained to woman.  That is a joke as I am chained without the tax bennies, not true, but funny none the less.

    I think you are mad at the right for spending the past couple of decades telling everyone how marriage is the foundation of humanity, it sucks when their own BS is used their own, doesn't it ?

    I have never, and will never believe a ceremony is the foundation of anything but religious non-sense.  Adults don't need a piece of paper to love one another for life, nor does that piece of paper guarantee they will be true, but they do need it to to establish parental rights, and yes, tax breaks.  Which I will go out on a limb and say was the workings of the right.  Who else thinks that overpopulating the planet is worthy of subsidizes.

    Parent

    I agree... (none / 0) (#93)
    by kdog on Mon Jun 29, 2015 at 01:19:27 PM EST
    the government should never have gotten involved in the marriage business, ever.  It should have always been a personal thing between two consenting adults, and if they so chose their religion...but since marriage is so woven into law there was no turning back, making this SC decision most necessary.

    I also agree that the description of marriage in the opinion is not one I necessarily agree with, I don't need no stinkin' piece of paper or state sanction to believe in or practice love/devotion/commitment/family/sacrifice, but the ruling was so sound and so cool, who cares if Kennedy waxed a little poetic...the intent is beautiful.

    And like Scott said, despite the lack of government perks, being single and childless is it's own reward! Some things are worth doing even if the government can run you over the coals over it...marijuana use comes to mind;)

    Parent

    I agree with a lot of that (none / 0) (#94)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 29, 2015 at 01:46:36 PM EST
    i never really understood the fascination with marriage apart from the legal and financial implications.

    That said, that's exactly why it's important.  

    I always valued my separateness.  I never wanted to be like them.  Until the 80s and hospital issues started popping up.   In actual practice, the need becomes clear.

    Parent

    Indeed... (none / 0) (#95)
    by kdog on Mon Jun 29, 2015 at 02:08:39 PM EST
    just a shame there are legal and financial ramifications at all...but that's the society we've created for ourselves.  Law and finance pollute so much of what should be sacred.

    Parent
    Also (none / 0) (#100)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jun 29, 2015 at 05:44:10 PM EST
    i have learned along the way that everyone is not like me and that for some the legitimacy is very important.

    Shrug.

    They should have that right.

    Parent

    Girl, is that ever an understatement! (none / 0) (#14)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jun 26, 2015 at 10:49:40 PM EST
    Jeralyn: "The country cannot afford another Justice Alito."

    In his dissenting opinion re: Obergefell v. Hodges, Our Sweet Sammy channeled the innermost recesses of his soul to find his innate victimhood, and having done so, then proceeded to lament that we, the white God-fearing people of Rock Ridge, will no longer be able to call LGBT people fa&&ots and d!kes, like we could in the good old days:

    "[Today's ruling] will be used to vilify Americans who are unwilling to assent to the new orthodoxy. In the course of its opinion, the majority compares traditional marriage laws to laws that denied equal treatment for African-Americans and women. The implications of this analogy will be exploited by those who are determined to stamp out every vestige of dissent."

    Not content to put down that shovel just yet, Our Sweet Sammy further elaborated:

    "I assume that those who cling to old beliefs will be able to whisper their thoughts in the recesses of their homes, but if they repeat those views in public, they will risk being labeled as bigots and treated as such by governments, employers, and schools."

    And finally, Our Sweet Sammy offered what I consider to be le piece de resistance of today's dissents, that the majority's decision might unleash amongst gay men and lesbians a blood-curdling lust for vengeance against we, the white God-fearing people of Rock Ridge, who are apparently guilty of little more than having pushed them off the swingset and then stolen their lunch money during recess all these years:

    "By imposing its own views on the entire country, the majority facilitates the marginalization of the many Americans who have traditional ideas. Recalling the harsh treatment of gays and lesbians in the past, some may think that turn-about is fair play. But if that sentiment prevails, the Nation will experience bitter and lasting wounds."

    Mon Dieu! L'humanité! L'hyperbole! And yet Our Sweet Sammy was qualified to sit on the High Court -- how, exactly?

    "I know what you're thinking -- and you ought to be ashamed of yourself!"
    -- Carole "Toddy" Todd (Robert Preston), "Victor/Victoria" (1982)

    Aloha.

    He clutched those pearls (none / 0) (#19)
    by Repack Rider on Fri Jun 26, 2015 at 11:48:39 PM EST
    ...so hard they turned into diamonds.

    Parent
    And then... (none / 0) (#27)
    by lentinel on Sat Jun 27, 2015 at 05:26:01 AM EST
    there's Clarence.

    Another pip.

    Parent

    All of the dissents were particularly (none / 0) (#30)
    by caseyOR on Sat Jun 27, 2015 at 09:04:28 AM EST
    nasty, cruel and well, whiny. Every single one of them.

    As to the complaint that the Court imposed its will on the good people of the USA, that is what the court does. In every case it hears the Court imposes its will on the People, every single one.

    Seriously, dissenting justices, please get back to me when you have figured out how to atone for the egregious overreach and harm of Bush v Gore.

    Parent

    The silver lining is ... (none / 0) (#31)
    by Erehwon on Sat Jun 27, 2015 at 09:26:18 AM EST
    that posterity will judge these dissenters harshly, and rate them among the worst SC justices ever.

    Parent
    I don't think we should have to wait ... (none / 0) (#47)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jun 27, 2015 at 05:15:11 PM EST
    ... for posterity to weigh in. In fact, now that Vincent Bugliosi -- who roundly denounced them for their decision in Bush v. Gore -- has passed on, I think we can say that posterity already has.

    Parent
    Funny... (none / 0) (#85)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Jun 29, 2015 at 12:26:26 PM EST
    ...how I don't remember the court being labeled as 5 activist lawyers imposing their political will on everyone when they decided for Bush.

    It's like there is a double standard, but that can't be, that would make them hypocrites.

    I think its reprehensible for the the SCOTUS justices and politicians to spend the day/week trying to delegitimize the SCOTUS.

    We can disagree, but we cannot act like the system is flawed whenever things don't go the way they want to.  Cruz was on the TV talking about a law to make sitting justices have to campaign to get to keep their appointments.

    I mean for focks sake, get over it, it affect him in no way other that his delicate sensibilities of what he thinks marriage should be.  IOW it doesn't effect him in any meaningful way, at all, and for this he wants to be able to get ride of justices he helped confirm, with a public vote.  If god has a problem with how about we let god take care of it, no wait, he did on Friday.

    For a guy who loves the Constitution he sure doesn't respect it much.

    Parent

    I didn't call them "activists" either (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by Mr Natural on Mon Jun 29, 2015 at 06:33:57 PM EST
    but the name definitely started with A.

    Parent
    I just visited (none / 0) (#32)
    by Repack Rider on Sat Jun 27, 2015 at 11:49:59 AM EST
    ...The Sarah Palin fansite.  I drop in there after moments of liberal triumph to top off my tank of schadenfreude.

    Good stuff there today, high-test tears.  No link, but a few nuggets.  

    I would go even further and say that SCOTUS just handed the Presidency to Sarah Palin, IF she chooses to run...

    ____________

    President Obama and his chief of staff
    Rahm Emanuel are lifetime members of the same gay bath house in uptown Chicago, according to informed sources in Chicago's gay community, as well as veteran political sources in the city.

    _____________

    If churches are smart, they would post notices that they will only perform weddings for members of the church. To become a member, you have to attend confirmation classes that spell out the tenants of the Bible and have to agree and affirm to follow said tenants.

    "Tenants?"

    _____________

    homo-soetoro got a 3 bagger...scrotumcare, homo-unions, and unconscious racist housing.

    _____________

    This lady from the North is so in-tune with what the Spirit of the Lord is doing in the church today, I can hardly contain myself!

    ______________

    God willing, and with our help, encouragement, and prayers, when Sarah Louise Heath Palin gets to say "So Help Me God" she will instantly become the best President we have had since Ronald Reagan retired, in my humble opinion, (and, I would like to believe, in the humble opinions of all here and many elsewhere).
    Repack, what's wrong with you? (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by The Addams Family on Sat Jun 27, 2015 at 04:37:49 PM EST
    don't you know who the tenants of the Bible are?

    guess somebody has to spell it out for you: Adam & Steve

    Parent

    I used to be a tenant, (none / 0) (#57)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Jun 28, 2015 at 04:47:40 AM EST
    But I was evicted by the landlord because I played my music a little too loud and wouldn't turn it down.

    Parent
    Sooner or later, the hate bakers and (none / 0) (#33)
    by Mr Natural on Sat Jun 27, 2015 at 12:31:27 PM EST
    hate preachers will notice that it's good for the baking and ceremony business when anyone gets married.  And if we know anything about big mouthed, right wing preachers, we know they love money.

    40% of American children are now born out of wedlock, Sarah Palin's daughter Bristol is just the latest example.

    Parent

    Jeebus (none / 0) (#36)
    by sj on Sat Jun 27, 2015 at 01:25:00 PM EST


    Parent
    No Mention of Bristol's... (none / 0) (#86)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Jun 29, 2015 at 12:31:29 PM EST
    ...second pre-marriage pregnancy.  I guess the queen of abstinence not following suit is not worthy of the Palin blog.

    For the record, there is no shame in being an unwed parent, the shame is telling others that pre-marriage sex is a sin, then having two kids before you are married.

    Parent

    Bees More Dangerous Than Terrorists (none / 0) (#34)
    by Robot Porter on Sat Jun 27, 2015 at 01:06:59 PM EST
    Glenn Greenwald in this eye-opening article points out that more Americans are killed each year by bees, hornets and wasps; than have been killed by "Muslim extremists" in the U.S. since 9/11.  In fact, he notes Right Wing extremists have racked up a bigger total.  Though they still can't match bees.

    But, once again, during this election both political parties will fear-monger over terrorism.

    And even Bernie Sanders, who knows better, will go along with too much of it. So will Rand Paul, who also knows better.

    I know I'll be checking under my bed (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Jun 27, 2015 at 01:19:55 PM EST
    tonight for any terroristic Hymenoptera lurking there.

    Parent
    And I will patriotically watch ... (none / 0) (#37)
    by Robot Porter on Sat Jun 27, 2015 at 01:27:34 PM EST
    Irwin Allen's THE SWARM!

    Parent
    Does this mean my bee garden (none / 0) (#38)
    by nycstray on Sat Jun 27, 2015 at 01:28:41 PM EST
    Is a terrorist hangout?

    Parent
    Yup ... (none / 0) (#39)
    by Robot Porter on Sat Jun 27, 2015 at 01:34:36 PM EST
    the NSA is buzzing about it!

    :::Ducks:::

    Parent

    All that sweet nectar (none / 0) (#41)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Jun 27, 2015 at 01:39:12 PM EST
    going out as honey for ISIS.

    Parent
    I was a piano mover (none / 0) (#40)
    by Repack Rider on Sat Jun 27, 2015 at 01:37:28 PM EST
    ...for 25 years.  I had to pay the highest Worker's Comp rate for my employees because it was seen as dangerous.  I walked away at age 68 having never missed a day from injury.  One of my employees got a three-stitch cut on his ear, didn't miss any work.

    Three people can't spend 25 years working in their own kitchens without sustaining an equivalent level of injury.  Working for me was safer than cooking dinner, and I should have had to pay a rate reflecting that.

    Facts didn't matter.

    Parent

    Very interesting. The head piano mover (none / 0) (#42)
    by oculus on Sat Jun 27, 2015 at 01:52:50 PM EST
    told me his crew would move the sofa so I could put down the pad and rug.  Then they would place the piano where I specified--once. But after the piano was in place, this man, who was wearing a back brace, lifted the entire keyboard end of a 9 foot two inch grand so one of his collegues could turn the wheel so the lock faced under the piano. Amazing.

    BTW, I marvelled at the skill involved in moving this piano b

    Parent

    I once helped the pianist Anton Kuerti (none / 0) (#46)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Jun 27, 2015 at 04:51:54 PM EST
    move his piano into an container to be taken to the airport for his next gig, and got an autograph I still have somewhere, in return for my efforts.  This was almost 40 years ago.  

    Parent
    Looks like his agent wrote his wiki entry. (none / 0) (#53)
    by oculus on Sat Jun 27, 2015 at 08:06:34 PM EST
    Wonderful teachers.

    Parent
    He sure taught me (none / 0) (#55)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Jun 27, 2015 at 10:04:49 PM EST
    How to help someone move a piano on a city street by Powell Hall on a dark and cold night in St. Louis.  

    Parent
    I have a painting by.. (none / 0) (#54)
    by desertswine on Sat Jun 27, 2015 at 09:39:27 PM EST
    Ralph Berkowitz, who was the accompanist for Piatigorsky for many years.  Berkowitz lived to be over a hundred and would give his paintings away.  That's how I got one.

    Parent
    hey oculus, did you see the film (none / 0) (#113)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 29, 2015 at 08:37:42 PM EST
    The Woman in Gold? I thought of you of course both because we saw that painting together and there was a Bechstein in the familiy's pre-war drawing room.

    Parent
    The book was enough for (none / 0) (#114)
    by oculus on Mon Jun 29, 2015 at 08:41:36 PM EST
    me. A book club pick. Heavily reliant on Stephan's Zweig's memoir, The World of Yesterday, a terrific book.

    Parent
    Facts Did Matter... (none / 0) (#88)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Jun 29, 2015 at 12:45:34 PM EST
    ...you surely are the aberration in the moving piano business.  I would imagine the fact is movers are generally at higher risk for injury that other labors.

    If I remember right, you used to live in Milwaukee, anyways I worked for Hernia Movers for about 9 months, one season up north.  F, many, many 5th to 5th floor moves in old buildings where elevators did not exist and the people who could afford Hernia, had lots of heavy stuff, like pianos.

    People got hurt, or at least they called in hurt/sick, a lot, so much so that I was always on call.  Great paying job, awesome benefits, and humongous tips, but I got sick of never knowing when I got up, if I had the day off.  Before cell phones I had to call in very early every day to see if my team was going to work that day.

    Parent

    I don't agree (none / 0) (#125)
    by Repack Rider on Tue Jun 30, 2015 at 05:56:43 PM EST
    I would imagine the fact is movers are generally at higher risk for injury that other labors.

    Household movers, yes.  Piano movers, no.  I walked away at age 68 after 25 years, never missed a day from injury, nothing hurts now.

    Before I was a piano mover, I was a household mover.  That's a dangerous job, and unfortunately my insurance company could not tell the difference between the two types of work.

    Piano moving is five or ten minutes of hard work, then riding around in the truck for a while.  HH moving is a long slog, and at the end of the day, when fatigue has set in and concentration has lapsed, stuff happens.

    Parent

    Forgot to mention (none / 0) (#126)
    by Repack Rider on Tue Jun 30, 2015 at 05:59:12 PM EST
    I live in the SF Bay Area, hilly country, houses built on steep hillsides, and pre-building-code stairwells in SF.  Most flights I ever took a piano up, nine.

    If it was easy, it would pay minimum wage.

    Parent

    A snippet from Friday's NYT (none / 0) (#43)
    by oculus on Sat Jun 27, 2015 at 01:55:02 PM EST
    interview of Andrew Sullivan re SCOTUS on SSM:

    He added: "It's great finally to win an argument. Though in truth I'm also a little depressed that I can't keep arguing, because I do love it so."



    No worries (none / 0) (#52)
    by sj on Sat Jun 27, 2015 at 06:06:57 PM EST
    I'm sure he'll find lots of other fights to pick.

    Parent
    ECUSA (none / 0) (#44)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jun 27, 2015 at 04:09:14 PM EST
    just elected its first African American Presiding Bishop Michael Curry from NC.

    What denomination is that? (none / 0) (#48)
    by Peter G on Sat Jun 27, 2015 at 05:49:04 PM EST
    "ECUSA"?

    Parent
    The Episcopal Church (5.00 / 2) (#49)
    by CoralGables on Sat Jun 27, 2015 at 05:55:02 PM EST
    in the United States of America

    Parent
    So, I take it these are the mainstream (none / 0) (#70)
    by Peter G on Sun Jun 28, 2015 at 01:15:23 PM EST
    U.S. Episcopalians, the ones with women and gay priests, etc., not the schismatic "traditional" "Anglican" Episcopalians who oppose those reforms?

    Parent
    you (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Jun 28, 2015 at 02:51:46 PM EST
    would be correct in that respect.

    Parent
    Here (none / 0) (#50)
    by CoralGables on Sat Jun 27, 2015 at 05:57:11 PM EST
    LINK

    Parent
    Sunday bobble (none / 0) (#61)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 28, 2015 at 07:49:22 AM EST
    ABC's "This Week" - Jim Obergefell; lead plaintiff in gay marriage case; Republican presidential candidate Mike Huckabee

    NBC's "Meet the Press" - Two Republican presidential candidates, Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina and Gov. Bobby Jindal of Louisiana; Mary Bonauto

    CBS's "Face the Nation" - Chad Griffin, president of the Human Rights Campaign; Russell Moore, president of the Southern Baptist Convention's Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission.

    "Fox News Sunday" - Ted Olsen and Catholic University of America President John Garvy

    CNN State of the Union - Donald Trump

    Come ooooooooon
    This wil be fun.  I'm recording all of them.

    Have to say (none / 0) (#64)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Jun 28, 2015 at 10:07:34 AM EST
    i LOVE Mary Bonauto's shoes on MTP.   They are the shoes I might wear on MTP.

    Parent
    Two what? (none / 0) (#78)
    by Repack Rider on Sun Jun 28, 2015 at 04:40:52 PM EST
    Two Republican presidential candidates, Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina and Gov. Bobby Jindal of Louisiana

    Presidential... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

    Whew!  You really had me going there for a second.

    Wait.  They're SERIOUS!

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

    Parent

    Right... (none / 0) (#89)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Jun 29, 2015 at 12:56:28 PM EST
    ...and Gingrich was on the show as well.

    I normally don't watch, but I wanted to see how they were going to handle it after last weeks disaster.  Not bad, you don't really need a D's on the panel when all the R's agree that it's time to move on in regards to the flag, ACA, and gay marriage.  

    I can't imagine the right responds well to Graham's proclamation that a marriage amendment has zero chance of winning.

    Todd made Jindal look like craven political fool.  He had a bunch of R quotes that he read and asked Jindal if his own party doesn't like him why is he running.  Graham looked like he needs two weeks of sleep, and Gingrich is probably one of the most moderate republicans left in the country.

    Parent

    That's (5.00 / 2) (#91)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jun 29, 2015 at 01:07:39 PM EST
    a sad statement if Gingrich is considered a "moderate". If he was still there in the house he would sound every bit like the nuts that are there now screeching it is the end of the world.

    Lindsey is catching a ton of grief by saying that the GOP needs to move on past the gay marriage issue. The flag issue mostly has created a splinter among the GOP base and its representatives. The gay marriage issue has created a splinter among the actual elected representatives. It seems Lindsey Graham has been appointed by the party to take all the heat.

    Parent

    ruffian (none / 0) (#127)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 30, 2015 at 06:22:02 PM EST
    i was watching this Hannibal DVD and it drove me to my Thomsa Harris collection to find some stuff.
    I remember you saying something like Hannibal was a meanie.
    Indeed.
    If you would like to know what made him that way I (assuming you have not read it) highly recommend the excellent book "Hannibal Rising".  Harris takes us back to his childhood.
    It's possibly my favorite of the series because you really feel how much Harris loves this character.

    I recommend the whole series.  Far better than the excellent films.

    Funny (none / 0) (#128)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 30, 2015 at 07:23:52 PM EST
    i had never read a review of any of Harris books.  I have them all in hardcover and love them.
    The reviews made me laugh out loud a couple of times.  They are often not good.  Mildly.

    They read to me like people who were personally offended that Harris could write a handful of books in his entire life and be richer and more famous than they will ever be and be the guy who gets to write the novel and the screenplay at the same time.  Which seemed particularly offensive to them for some reason.
    Hannibal Rising seems to be the one they hate the most so it seems perfectly fitting it would be my favorite.

    Parent

    I will look for it - have not read that one (none / 0) (#167)
    by ruffian on Wed Jul 01, 2015 at 06:01:26 PM EST
    I had a friend that I used to work with that was WAY more into the Thomas Harris books than is healthy. She even had a web site tracing all the symbolism and arcana, the Dante and Blake references. She even followed Thomas into his non-hannibal exploits as possibly a Holocaust denier? He went beyond just free speech that it is legal to exercise the idea of being a denier..to actually being a denier. She lost me there, but it was interesting to talk to her about all of this Hannibal lore. I need to get in touch with her and see if she has been watching the series. I think she would approve of the renditions, given the limitations of network TV.  I'll find out if her site is still up too.

    So how far are you in the series?

    Parent

    Four episodes into season 2 (none / 0) (#168)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jul 01, 2015 at 06:07:47 PM EST
    Completely unaware of the denier stuff.  I don't know that much about him at all.  I just like his fiction.

    Parent
    Let me retract that about the denialism (none / 0) (#171)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 02, 2015 at 06:37:58 AM EST
    I could very well be misremembering what she told me or she misinterpreting....don't want to get sued or get J in trouble!

    Parent
    Looking into it (none / 0) (#172)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 02, 2015 at 06:50:28 AM EST
    Curious.   If true I'm very surprised.

    Parent
    The impending default: Greece (none / 0) (#129)
    by christinep on Tue Jun 30, 2015 at 09:44:54 PM EST
    Calling Zorba ... what are your thoughts about the dynamics of the EU and Tsipras' Greece?

    Husband & I started to focus on the political forces surrounding the debt crisis in recent months, primarily because we are scheduled to be there in late August.  (Only a few days with Athens, Rhodes, etc.)  Knowing next to nothing about the politics of EU back & forth, we first fell in line with the conventional view of it-will-be-a-disaster concerns; then, as we began to ask questions about our own self interest, we began to learn a bit in the broader view. In fact, default seemed to offer some advantages than the accompanying loss.

    I'm curious to hear what you think, Zorba?

    My thoughts? (5.00 / 2) (#139)
    by Zorba on Wed Jul 01, 2015 at 09:56:03 AM EST
    It's complicated.  Looks like Tsipras has made a new proposal, which if accepted by the European banks, et al, would make Sunday's referendum moot, and it may be called off.  If you want to look at some news, from a Greek newspaper, here's a link to "TO BHMA," English version.

    Economists Paul Krugman and Joseph Stiglitz have recently come out in favor of Greece defaulting.  Link.
    It may be too late for that now.  Greece's economy may well be so broken at this point that a default, exit from the Eurozone, and a return to the drachma may not get them out of trouble for a very, very long time.

    What I thought five years ago is that Greece should have defaulted then and gone back to the drachma, allowing their currency to float and making their tourism and their exports that much more attractive to the world.  Would it have been hard on the people?  Yes, and probably for at least a year or  18 months or so.  But probably not any worse than what they've been going through, and not for five years.  And a default now will probably take a much longer time than a year or so for them to climb back out of the abyss.

    The Greek people would also have had to step up to the plate, start paying their taxes (once they had jobs again, that is) and stop expecting all the benefits in the world, with no way to pay for them.  But it could be done.  I just wish they had done this five years ago.

    Well, we shall see.  It's a mess, all right.  I think your trip will go very well.  They're not going to be invaded by an EU army, and the Greek people will not be engaging in an armed revolution.  By the end of August, the bail out, repayment, default question will have been answered.  The most inconvenience you might encounter (and I seriously doubt this will happen) is a brief closure of the air and sea ports if there is another country-wide strike.

    Enjoy yourself in Greece, and pray for the Greek people, too.  They need the prayers.


    Parent

    Thank you, Zorba (5.00 / 1) (#152)
    by christinep on Wed Jul 01, 2015 at 02:02:21 PM EST
    Frankly, the synthesis that you give seems a step up from what we have read to date.  Your comparison of now-versus-then as a default solution, together with the reasons you point out below, are quite helpful. While I had seen the Krugman article earlier and saw a summary of Stiglitz concurring position, I now look forward to reading the BHMA link you added.

    Also: The comments generated by your evaluation have been provocative in terms of striking an acceptable societal balance when it comes to government's responsibility for the livelihood of its citizenry and the so-often contentious matter of the citizens; responsibility to pay the necessary taxes.  

    I appreciate your good wishes for our trip ... and, please know that I offer prayerful thoughts & good wishes for the people of Greece.

    Parent

    One small worry that occurred to me, (none / 0) (#156)
    by Zorba on Wed Jul 01, 2015 at 02:32:43 PM EST
    And I really don't think that this will happen, not in this day and age (although you never know) is that Greece may give up on leftist or centrist governments, and look to the extreme right-wing.  Unfortunately, in recent years, there has been somewhat of a resurgence of some neo-Nazi sentiment in Greece.  See, Golden Dawn.

    This has been very alarming to me.

    Add to that, I certainly clearly remember the Greek military junta take-over in 1967, lasting until 1974.  See link.

    Nobody in any media that I am aware of seems to have considered any of this.  And, as I said, it's all not likely to happen.  But still.......

    Parent

    Perceptive. (none / 0) (#157)
    by christinep on Wed Jul 01, 2015 at 02:44:14 PM EST
    If Tsipras "loses" in any referendum now, would the temptation to try a rightwing path take hold .... I too remember accounts of the junta.  Perhaps, because the memory is still within the lifetime, any potential temptation would avoid the extreme.  

    Parent
    We shall see. (none / 0) (#162)
    by Zorba on Wed Jul 01, 2015 at 03:33:07 PM EST
    I seriously doubt that the military will take over.  And I doubt that Golden Dawn will, either, but that is more of a concern.  Sometimes, desperate people lead to desperate results.  And the Greeks, much as I love them, have been pretty stupid in the past over whom they have elected.  Get some party like GD to blame the immigrants (which they already do) and any "non-Greek" such as the Germans and the French and the EU banks, for the Greek problems, and who the he!! knows how they may vote?
    They would not be a threat to Europe (except financially to a certain extent), but might well be of concern to NATO.  There are several NATO bases in Greece, it's close to North Africa and the Middle East, it has its own NATO troops in the Balkans and Afghanistan, which would be withdrawn, and Greece, as part of NATO, has signed agreements with Turkey, which I'm sure would be renounced.
    For that matter, forget Golden Dawn, Tsipras and his Syriza government are against NATO.
    It's a right royal mess in the making, and I just wish I knew the answer.

    Parent
    And, the implosion continues...... (none / 0) (#145)
    by NYShooter on Wed Jul 01, 2015 at 11:15:18 AM EST
    Today's NY Times reports that doctors are leaving Greece in droves.

    Not bad enough that the Greek people are suffering financially, now their health is in serious jeopardy.

    My feeling is that there's no crisis that people of good faith can't solve. With Greece, there's so many different factions pointing their fingers at others you'd need 6 hands to cover them all. Maybe what they need is an outside arbitrager to impose a solution. Whether there's such a person that all sides would trust is the question.

    Bottom line, while the ordinary Greek citizens deserve some of the blame, they're by no means the primary villains. As with our own financial debacle, some of the blame, rightfully belonged to those homeowners who took out mortgages they couldn't afford, but, much greater blame goes to the greedy, corrupt Banksters who waved those prime rate mortgages under their noses, knowing they'd never be paid, and also knowing Uncle Sam would be there to bail them out.

    Parent

    The NY Times (none / 0) (#150)
    by Zorba on Wed Jul 01, 2015 at 12:36:28 PM EST
    is late to the party.  This has been going on for quite awhile now, according to my Greek-American friends who have visited Greece and still have relatives there.
    See this article from 2012, for instance.
    And not only that, and perhaps not surprisingly (although extremely unfortunately), because of the collapse of the health care system both HIV-AIDS and malaria have made a come-back in Greece.  Link.  (Mr. Zorba, a molecular biologist, actually knew about this and pointed it out to me, years ago, before I saw anything in the news about it.)
    Of course the ordinary citizens are not the primary villains, Shooter.  I mainly blame the predatory banks and some of the previous, corrupt Greek governments.  Not terribly surprising when you have a government that is not looking out for the best interests of its citizens, while at the same time essentially getting in bed with the predatory banks.

    Parent
    The News Stated... (none / 0) (#135)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Jul 01, 2015 at 09:27:55 AM EST
    ...the people affected the most, the elderly and the poor in that the government is not paying benefits.  Shameful.

    The other thing I saw, the Greece tried to actually get wealthy people to pay their income taxes, but failed.

    As Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras goes into a Battle of the Titans with German Chancellor Angela Merkel, he may find he has as big a fight closer to home: taking on rich tax-evaders.

    Just a day after Tsipras's election on Jan. 25, figures from the finance ministry showed that revenue for the government last year amounted to 51.4 billion euros ($58.2 billion), lower than a 55.3 billion target, in part due to a 1.4 billion-euro shortfall in tax revenue.

    I believe the payment they can't make is 1.7B euros.

    German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble, meeting his Greek counterpart Yanis Varoufakis in Berlin last week, said he repeated his offer to send 500 German tax officials to Greece to tackle the problem, an offer that has not yet been taken up.
     LINK

    I think it's rather funny that republicans are slamming Greece when their main problem seems to be taxes, and they are screwing the poor and elderly in order to ensure rich people don't pay their fair share.

    I apologize, I am not Zorba.

    Parent

    Okay by me. (5.00 / 1) (#140)
    by Zorba on Wed Jul 01, 2015 at 10:07:38 AM EST
    You were answering as I was typing.
    Tax evasion has long been an enormous problem in Greece.  Especially among the wealthy, but even "regular" working people tried to avoid paying their taxes, as much as possible.

    Look, the roots of their debt crisis were four-fold, at least IMHO.  Massive tax avoidance.  Expecting huge government benefits (early retirement, generous pensions, etc) with no way to keep paying for them.  A history of electing corrupt governments, who were greedy and willing to go after loans that couldn't ever be paid back.  And predatory banks, who made those enormous loans knowing full well that Greece couldn't repay them, but with the expectation that the IMF, the EU, etc, would step in with some kind of bail-out.

    Everyone looking for today, with no thought for tomorrow.

    (For awhile, I was a bit worried that Greece might look to Russia for a bail-out. There are historic ties between the two countries after all, because of a shared religion.  But frankly, Russia has their own economic problems right now.)

    Parent

    Another church on fire tonight (none / 0) (#130)
    by CoralGables on Tue Jun 30, 2015 at 09:58:50 PM EST
    I believe this makes 7 in the South since the Charleston shootings.

    This one is the Mount Zion AME Church in Greeleyville, SC. This same church was burned by the KKK in 1995.

    How many church fires were there.... (none / 0) (#131)
    by unitron on Wed Jul 01, 2015 at 01:50:30 AM EST
    ...the week before the Charleston massacre?

    Are we seeing an unusual number?

    Or are we just seeing an unusual amount of reporting of them?

    Parent

    Three have already been ruled arson (5.00 / 1) (#133)
    by CST on Wed Jul 01, 2015 at 09:05:31 AM EST
    It's not the least bit unusual following a week like we've had.  Historically.

    Parent
    One took place during a thunderstorm (none / 0) (#134)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Wed Jul 01, 2015 at 09:12:11 AM EST
    so they're trying to determine if it was arson or a lightning strike responsible for the fire.

    Parent
    Really ? (5.00 / 1) (#137)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Jul 01, 2015 at 09:38:30 AM EST
    It's fine if they are burning down churches so long as they are consistent ?  If you can't figure out 8 black church fires in one region is unusual... I guess the job of an apologist isn't to question.

    FYI, it's not Charleston or South Carolina, this is in the entire region.  List & locations:

    Knoxville, Tenn., on June 21 and moving to Macon, Ga., and Gibson County, in Tennessee, on June 23; Charlotte, N.C., on June 24; Elyria, Ohio, on June 25; and Tallahassee, Fla., and Warrenville, S.C., on June 26.

    And it's 8 in 10 days.  The shooting occurred 13 days ago.  The latest being one the KKK has burned down in the past in a 30 church burning spree in the 80's.  And yes two people were convicted and sent to prison for it.

    Parent

    That's some mighty fine... (none / 0) (#169)
    by unitron on Wed Jul 01, 2015 at 07:36:36 PM EST
    ...conclusion jumping.

    I asked about previous church fires.

    I did not confine that to South Carolina churches, Southern churches, or Black churches.

    A church I helped build back in the mid '80s caught fire a few years later.  As far as I know it wasn't reported state-wide, much less nationally.  I assume that's probably true of almost all other church fires.

    I was wondering if we were seeing unusually high numbers, or something closer to the usual being reported more widely than usual.

    According to the National Fire Protection Association there are, on average, about 30 some church fires per week nationwide, and about 5 of them are intentionally set, although they don't give figures on how many of those, intentionally set or otherwise, are at White or Black or Asian or Latino/Hispanic or other classification churches, nor do they say which of the arson cases are specifically racially motivated and not due to some other reason like firebugs or an angry congregation member.

    "During the four-year period of 2007-2011, an estimated average of 1,780 religious and funeral property structures fires were reported to U.S. fire departments per year...The vast majority of the religious and funeral property fires occur in religious properties. Only 4% were in funeral parlors...The 16% of fires that were intentionally set caused 25% of the direct property damage."

    And of course any of the ones out of those under discussion which turn out not to have been intentionally set, if they do, aren't indications of racial anything.


    Parent

    Probably (none / 0) (#132)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jul 01, 2015 at 06:53:45 AM EST
    space heaters

    Parent
    Here in the Carolinas.... (none / 0) (#170)
    by unitron on Wed Jul 01, 2015 at 07:43:19 PM EST
    ...as is usual this time of year, but seemingly especially so this year, we've got a big yellow solar powered space heater that comes on every morning and runs all day so there's still plenty of warmth during the overnight period, so there's very little need to have any attached to the electrical grid.

    Parent
    I can't answer that question (none / 0) (#136)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jul 01, 2015 at 09:34:57 AM EST
    other than with...if there were this many fires per week at predominately black churches in the South prior to Charleston, then the South has a far bigger problem than imagined.

    Parent
    I posted this in the last open (none / 0) (#138)
    by CST on Wed Jul 01, 2015 at 09:47:03 AM EST
    But I'm gonna post it again, just because it seems to be flying under the radar in a lot of news organizations, and IMO, is huge news for the economy/middle class.  The direct impact will be very large and the ripple effect of this has the potential to be enormous.

    Link

    "President Obama announced Monday night a rule change that would make millions more Americans eligible for overtime pay.

    The rule would raise the salary threshold below which workers automatically qualify for time-and-a-half overtime wages to $50,440 a year from $23,660, according to an op-ed article by the president in The Huffington Post."

    Think every retail/food service "manager" in the country who is forced to work long hours for low pay as a salaried employee.  Plus college students entering the professional workforce.  As for scaling back each person's hours - that will decrease unemployment and give people time back to either a) have a life or b) find additional employment that actually pays for those hours.

    Big coverage on last night's evening news (none / 0) (#155)
    by christinep on Wed Jul 01, 2015 at 02:23:23 PM EST
    The Fair Labor Standards Act has always been a centerpiece for a fair labor market.  For years, of course, the concept of "manager" with it's exemption from employment overtime rules that would otherwise apply has been turned into the reality of obtaining strenuously-long labor from employees at servile-type wages.  These "title only managers" work 50, 60+ hours per week for the hollow title so that employers do not have to compensate them with a fair overtime wage for work done.  

    President Obama's decision to raise the $24,000 cut-off level to $50,000+ is a just decision.  The previous level is more than outdated.  The President's announced decision under the FLSA rights a long-time wrong.

    Parent

    I Was Talking With a Person... (none / 0) (#158)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Jul 01, 2015 at 02:47:32 PM EST
    ...we hired a month ago as he is young and although he makes more, I thought he would have friends in that range because of his age.  He told me the company he came from, a consulting firm, was packed full of young people who would qualify, easily.  He went on to tell me how they would expect 60 hours and answering email at all hours.

    Some days I think they work me like a slave and then I realize, I am an idiot and they I have it better than many.  I have worked my fair share of long hours, but not 60 week in and week out.

    Parent

    I can think of a ton of people (none / 0) (#160)
    by CST on Wed Jul 01, 2015 at 02:55:31 PM EST
    This would effect.  Basically every food-service manager in the country who makes under 50K (which is probably most of them).  One of the dirty secrets about restaurants is that a lot of people don't want to get promoted because they make less money that way.

    My former employer has some sous chefs that work 70-80 hrs a week.  Salary at about 40-45K.  It's criminal.  And I can't help but smile to picture the b*tching going on behind the scenes about it.  They can totally afford to pay more, and they need people for those hours, so they will now pay for it, they already have as few people as they can.

    And for all those saying that they'll just cut hours - great!  That's all most people would like, and you still presumably need to hire someone to cover that time.

    I'm sure some places will lower hourly wages to make up the difference, but really that's not going to fly in the long run, because hourly wages can only go so low and those also tend to be set more by the greater market.

    I can't remember exactly where but I read something like 40% of Americans will now be covered under this.  That's enormous.

    Parent

    Back in the 90's (5.00 / 1) (#161)
    by jbindc on Wed Jul 01, 2015 at 03:14:45 PM EST
    I was an Assistant Store Manager at first a Super Kmart in San Antonio, and then at a regular Kmart in Conroe, TX.  My salary was based on a 48 hour week, but most weeks, I put in between 50-60.  If course, between Thanksgiving and mid-January, I put in between 80-100 hours a week (99% on my feet, mind you), all for the grand sum of $27,000/year.

    I once made the mistake of calculating my hourly rate against my employees:  my lowest paid employee made $6.50 an hour (and was forbidden from working OT, per Kmart policy), while I was making something like $2/ hour.  With a master's degree.

    On the bright side, I did become very saavy at making Blue Light Special announcements over the PA.  My parents were so proud.  :)

    Parent

    Did the (none / 0) (#163)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jul 01, 2015 at 03:37:42 PM EST
    same when I worked in retail. And we had to work the floor during the Christmas season as "free" employees i.e. employees that were not in the budget or cost center for sales help. For those 6 or more Saturdays we were granted three days off after Christmas.

    Retail expects everybody who works there to do it. I had a boss when I was an assistant buyer say the same thing as you. She said she figured out what she was making per hour and it was pathetic and that in reality I was better off punching the time clock.

    Parent

    As Pete Seeger said ... (5.00 / 1) (#164)
    by christinep on Wed Jul 01, 2015 at 04:42:20 PM EST
    And as my Dad said when he reminded me about the workings, all too often, of the real world: I'm sticking with the Union, I'm sticking with the Union.

    Next: It is past time to raise that minimum wage.  I hope it will be much more than an election-year issue.  Solidarity Forever!

    Parent

    A Great Read on an English Reporter... (none / 0) (#141)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Jul 01, 2015 at 10:14:46 AM EST
    ...who lived in America for over a decade.

    Gary Younge: Farewell to America

    I like to think I am pretty race neutral, but after reading this I don't know, it really hit my heart and realize how much of it so common that I hardly notice.

    But great perspective from an outside who was here long enough to have 'skin in the game'.

    That's a pretty disgusting photo, Scott. (5.00 / 1) (#146)
    by Mr Natural on Wed Jul 01, 2015 at 11:18:47 AM EST
    What else can you call the "police" but an occupying army?

    Parent
    Time to cherry pick a poll (none / 0) (#142)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jul 01, 2015 at 10:41:20 AM EST
    or in this case to be called, "Hey Jim FOX, here's your double digit poll"

    CNN/Opinion Research:

    vs Bush  Clinton +13
    vs Rubio  Clinton +16
    vs Christie  Clinton +16
    vs Walker  Clinton +17
    vs Trump  Clinton +24

    Speaking of CNN... (5.00 / 2) (#144)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Jul 01, 2015 at 11:15:02 AM EST
    ...did anyone catch that they posted an ISIS flag in the middle of a pride parade failing to notice something rather obvious.

    John Oliver:


    Indeed, during the network's live coverage of Saturday's gay pride parade in London, an intrepid CNN reporter claimed that she'd spotted an ISIS flag among the rainbows. So CNN, as is its wont, blasted the headline "ISIS FLAG SPOTTED AT GAY PRIDE PARADE" for a rollicking seven-minute segment, even going so far as to pat itself on the back for the "scoop."

    "I seem to be the only person that's spotted this, and nobody seems to be raising any questions or pointing it out," said CNN reporter Lucy Pawle.

    Well, it turns out that wasn't an ISIS flag at all--far from it.

    "I'll tell you why they weren't raising any questions," said Oliver. "That's not the ISIS flag. That's a flag with d*ldos and b*tt plugs all over it. And yet, for more than seven spectacular minutes, CNN had it onscreen--even calling one of their `terrorism experts' to try and figure out why ISIS might be marching with the gay community through London, which did seem surprising."

    Asterisks added for Talk Left.


    "It's a full day later now, and they still haven't addressed this mistake on-air," said Oliver. "Probably because it would be too embarrassing to have a professional journalist say, `I'm sorry. Despite working at CNN, it seems I don't know what a d*ldo looks like.'"

    Paul Coombs explains why he did it and takes a swipe at CNN as well.

    CNN correspondent Lucy Pawle described my flag as a "very bad mimicry" but the only bad mimicry I could see was CNN's impression of a reputable news organization. What does this say about every other report that they broadcast? And why have they not mentioned it since? They seem to think that if nobody says anything about it then it can't have really happened.

    CNN working hard to lure the more 'educated' Fox News viewers.

    Parent

    Oh yes, I saw this one (5.00 / 1) (#151)
    by Zorba on Wed Jul 01, 2015 at 12:43:02 PM EST
    And laughed myself silly.
    I was a bit reluctant to mention it here, worried about how to say it, ahem, decorously.
    But you seem to have done a fine job of getting around the problems of addressing such a subject.     ;-)

    Parent
    What I (none / 0) (#143)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jul 01, 2015 at 10:56:07 AM EST
    find interesting in that poll is that Christie is polling the same as Rubio.

    I was thinking the other day that nominating Jeb Bush would be great. It would give the country a chance to smack his brother again for what he did.

    Parent

    Language Isn't the Issue Here... (none / 0) (#166)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Jul 01, 2015 at 05:21:53 PM EST
    ...it's the spammers looking for certain words.  I think I can do Carlin's list here so long as it's not searchable.  

    Parent
    More Places are Dropping Trump... (none / 0) (#147)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Jul 01, 2015 at 11:41:48 AM EST
    ...than the Confederate flag.  LINK I & LINK II

    • Macy's is pulling Donald Trump brand merchandise from its stores
    • Univision announced that it would cancel its telecast of the Miss USA pageant
    • NBCUniversal, which had jointly owned the Miss USA pageant and Miss Universe pageant with Trump, has also severed its relationship with the brash White House candidate. Trump was also the host of "Celebrity Apprentice," which airs on NBC, and will no longer be a part of the reality TV show.
    • TV company backed by Mexican billionaire Carlos Slim said it was scrapping a project in development with him and Mexico announced it won't be sending a contestant to the Miss Universe contest, which he partly owns.
    • Miss Mexico pageant director Lupita Jones said Mexico would boycott Miss Universe
    • The Miss USA pageant, set to take place July 12 in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, also lost both its co-hosts Tuesday, with "Dancing with the Stars'" Cheryl Burke and MSNBC anchor Thomas Roberts bowing out.
    • By Tuesday, the aftershocks had begun to spread into another lucrative part of Trump's empire, as the Ricky Martin Foundation announced it would withdraw a golf tournament from a Trump-owned property.

    Would it be too cheesy to say, "Trump, You're Fired !!"

    Trump, though, said he's fighting back with a $500 million lawsuit against Univision. The lawsuit claims breach of contract, defamation and First Amendment violations and says Univision turned on him because it supports Democrat Hillary Rodham Clinton for president.

    "We have 50 of the most lovely women you've ever seen right now in Louisiana, and they have been abandoned by NBC and abandoned by Univision," Trump said on Fox News Channel's "The O'Reilly Factor," adding, "They have been crushed."

    In a statement, Univision called Trump's lawsuit "factually false and legally ridiculous." It said it will "continue to fight against Mr. Trump's ongoing efforts to run away from the derogatory comments he made."

    And the cherry:

    Presidential hopeful Donald Trump has refused to release his long-form birth certificate and passport records, despite demanding the same from Barack Obama during the 2012 election.  LINK

    Cue (5.00 / 1) (#149)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jul 01, 2015 at 12:17:22 PM EST
    the squeals of cultural cleansing and the Hispanics are taking over.

    Parent
    "cultural cleansing" (none / 0) (#154)
    by CST on Wed Jul 01, 2015 at 02:17:50 PM EST
    Could we though?

    Parent
    I'd hate to think that Donald Trump (none / 0) (#148)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Wed Jul 01, 2015 at 11:52:33 AM EST
    might feel coerced in any way about his remarks about Mexicans.

    Pendejo!

    Parent

    Let's say that (none / 0) (#153)
    by christinep on Wed Jul 01, 2015 at 02:10:58 PM EST
    the blowback couldn't happen to a more deserving jerk.  (The Macy's action did make me laugh out loud.)

    Parent
    When I Read That... (none / 0) (#159)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Jul 01, 2015 at 02:51:15 PM EST
    ...all I could think is WTF, there are people, maybe in my office, sporting Donald Trump clothing.

    Parent
    What kind of hair do they have :) ? (5.00 / 1) (#165)
    by christinep on Wed Jul 01, 2015 at 04:46:28 PM EST


    Parent
    Friday Night Open Thread | 170 comments (170 topical)

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