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ABC News: Jackson, Jr. is Candidate 5 in Blagojevich Complaint

By Jeralyn, Section Corruption Cases
Posted on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 10:36:18 AM EST
Tags: Rod Blagojevich (all tags)
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Brian Ross of ABC News reports law enforcement sources have told him Jesse Jackson, Jr. is Senate Candidate # 5 in the Rod Blagojevich complaint.

Candidate 5 is significant to the story because the complaint alleges Blagojevich was taped saying #5's emissaries were willing to pay to play for the Senate Seat. What does Jackson, Jr. say? According to ABC,

Jackson Jr. said this morning he was contacted yesterday by federal prosecutors in Chicago who he said "asked me to come in and share with them my insights and thoughts about the selection process."

Jackson Jr. said "I don't know" when asked if he was Candidate #5, but said he was told "I am not a target of this investigation." Jackson Jr. said he agreed to talk with federal investigators "as quickly as possible" after he consults with a lawyer..... [He] denied that anyone had been authorized to make payments or promises to the Governor on his behalf.

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    ABC News: Jackson, Jr. is Candidate 5 in Blagojevich Complaint | 192 comments (192 topical)
    I did not particularly like Jesse II but (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by befuddledvoter on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:22:38 AM EST
    this surprises me, if true.  

    I just wonder if we excise all Blago's profanity and look at the essence of his postures and statements, it all comes down to a politician looking for something in exchange for the Senate seat.  As presented, with all the vulgarity and venom and directness, it is inherently corrupt. However, clean up the language and express the same postures more politely, and add in some language about qualifications of the candidates, you get politics as usual.

    I think Blago's style of communication is killing him.  I bet, if you stop and think about it, on a more local level, you have seen the same kind of jockeying.  I have.

    This is not to defend Blago at all; rather, it is to point out linguistics and background may be the most damning variables in this.    

    Yes I agree. If we excise all of the (5.00 / 4) (#62)
    by hairspray on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:00:25 PM EST
    vulgarity will we get Caroline Kennedy jockeying
    for Hillary's seat saying ever so sweetly "After all we Kennedys have done for the party and with Ted ailing wouldn't it be nice to have another Kennedy carrying the banner forward?"

    Parent
    Absolutely (none / 0) (#71)
    by befuddledvoter on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:09:53 PM EST
    The first thing that came to mind for me was Caroline Kennedy.  Here, at least, we see names with proven track records of accomplishments.  Not to deminish Caroline Kennedy or her lineage but nothing tells me there that she would be a promising appointment, especially to fill HIllary's shoes.  

    People are people.  While Blago is coarse and blunt, others from a more genteel background could say essentially the same thing, though more politely and obtuse; ponder the same variables, based on self-interst. and it would pass as politics.  

    Parent

    Not clear to me (5.00 / 4) (#103)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:38:15 PM EST
    that Valerie Jarrett, said to be Obama's choice, would have the slightest claim to a seat in the United States Senate other than being one of Obama's best buds.  I'm sure she's a terrifically smart and accomplished person, but no more of a "proven track record" than Caroline Kennedy.

    One hopes -- hopes -- that Caroline's interest in taking Hillary's seat is purely with the idea of being a nice inoffensive place holder until the election.  Gah.

    Parent

    Seems a stretch. No info I am (none / 0) (#84)
    by oculus on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:17:56 PM EST
    aware of that Caroline Kennedy and/or anyone acting on her behalf was asked for or offered anything in exchange for Paterson appointing Kennedy.

    Parent
    Not in those circles I am sure. (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by hairspray on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:35:31 PM EST
    The language is much more genteel and vague, but we all get the picture.  And seriously, why do you think Caroline would seek out that position?  It certainly wouldn't be for cash, we all know that, but rather some kind of symbolic service award thing, IMHO.  She may now feel "ready" to do more for society.  Frankly I think she isn't the type and perhaps she is offering herself as a place holder for one of the Kennedy offspring.  But it is a deal of some sort, I am sure.

    Parent
    Yes, it's coarse (none / 0) (#51)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:49:06 AM EST
    and explicit in a way I think is not that common.  I can't get even remotely upset about one pol promising to raise campaign cash for another pol in return for some favor.  But what is odd about it is having it spelled out so explicitly as a quid pro quo.  Among pols, that's so automatic I doubt it very often gets spelled out that way.

    If it's JJJr., it's all in all a comparatively honorable bargaining chip-- certainly compared to promises of lucrative spots for Blago's spouse, etc.  Where JJJr. is going to get into really big trouble is if it was him and he denies it to the Feds.  Since the Feds had bugs in Blago's various offices, you have to wonder whether they have tape of Blago and JJJr's meeting on Monday afternoon, which sure sounds like it's what prompted Fitzgerald to act early Tues. AM.

    JJJr. denied the whole thing to ABC's Ross.

    Parent

    well said! (none / 0) (#176)
    by Prithimp on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 06:18:07 PM EST


    Parent
    If JJJr is #5 and it sounds (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by hairspray on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:23:25 AM EST
    plausible, where does that leave his role in the Obama campaign?  Wasn't he the guy that pushed the "Clintons are racists" meme?

    Only one of them (5.00 / 4) (#55)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:52:04 AM EST
    He also reportedly threatened other black legislators who were supporting Clinton, and of course, memorably publicly excoriated his own father for the "cut his nuts off" remark.


    Parent
    IIRC, it was JJjr who claimed Hillary (5.00 / 3) (#68)
    by Joelarama on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:07:48 PM EST
    never cried for the Katrina victims.

    Parent
    Did JJJr ever talk policy? (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by Fabian on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:16:38 PM EST
    Or was it OMG-this!  and OMG-that!

    Parent
    Donald, (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by caseyOR on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:45:03 AM EST
    how to you get to 5? I come up with 4: Otto Kerner, Dan Walker, George Ryan and Blago. Not trying to diminish the seriousness of this; just can't find #5, and many people are using that number.

    However, 4 or 5, this mess ceertainly reinforces Illinois' image as the political sleaze capital of the USA. (full disclosure: I was born and raised in Peoria, IL).

     This is a sad, sad commentary on the Land of Lincoln.

    Although not an Illinois governor, (5.00 / 1) (#151)
    by caseyOR on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 03:21:59 PM EST
    I think Paul Powell deserves a spot in the Illinois corruption line-up. He was Secretary of State in the 70's. When he died shoe boxes crammed full of cash were found all over his house, in closets and in drawers, just everywhere. I forget how many millions. Turned out Paul had been dispensing the favors of his office for personal gain. Of course, since he was dead there was no indictment.

    I was just in the car listening to NPR. They were discussing, what else, corruption in state governments. Turns out Illinois is not the leader of the 50 states when it comes to political corruption. The Prairie State comes in at #6. The top three spots go the Louisiana, Kentucky and Mississippi. For our friends in the NE, New Jersey ranks #9 and New York follows closely at #10.

    I didn't catch the name of the group that put this together. It was a good gov't group, but, I'm sorry, I don't have the name.

    Parent

    What criteria (none / 0) (#152)
    by cal1942 on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 03:33:49 PM EST
    was used for ranking the states by govt corruption?


    Parent
    LA and MS are no surprise (none / 0) (#171)
    by Fabian on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 05:34:05 PM EST
    KY?  I wouldn't have guessed.

    LA & MS really are no surprise.  When people were talking about all the poor people in NOLA post Katrina, I wondered why no one had noticed this before?  

    Parent

    Per AP, Obama calls for Gov. B. (5.00 / 2) (#69)
    by oculus on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:08:01 PM EST
    to resign.  Also stumbles over "we" changed to "I" as to whether we/he had any contact with Gov. B re filling Obama's Senate seat.  

    Good thing Obama was thoroughly (5.00 / 2) (#70)
    by ThatOneVoter on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:09:16 PM EST
    vetted.

    Parent
    Ha. Better hope his "media darling" (5.00 / 3) (#74)
    by oculus on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:10:39 PM EST
    status continues.  

    Parent
    Honestly, I don't find the (none / 0) (#81)
    by ThatOneVoter on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:16:26 PM EST
    accusations here shocking, and they hardly bother me. Isn't this just politics as usual, in 50 states?
    If it hurts Obama, not good though.

    Parent
    Taking bets: will Obama and family (none / 0) (#88)
    by oculus on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:19:48 PM EST
    decamp from Chicago to DC ASAP or wait 'til mid January?  Will they sell the Hyde Park mansion and cut their ties?

    Parent
    It's never the act (none / 0) (#116)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:56:01 PM EST
    It is always the cover up.

    Axlerod said he did. Now the videos of the Fox network interview and the YouTube of Axlerod saying Obama did have disappeared and we find that Axlerod "misspoke."

    This after Obama said he didn't talk to Blago.

    Sure. That works for me. No doubt.

    Parent

    ORLY? You're adding to the missing tape list? (none / 0) (#121)
    by Farmboy on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 01:02:42 PM EST
    Maybe it's in the secret gov't warehouse in between Michelle's "whitey" tape and the ark of the covenant.

    Parent
    If you click on the link to the video (none / 0) (#124)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 01:12:18 PM EST
    The messages simply states that it is no longer available.

    You may speculate on the location all you desire to.

    But you can't reframe the point.

    The tape was available.

    Now it is not.  

    Parent

    the you tube video of David Axelrod (none / 0) (#177)
    by Prithimp on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 06:24:24 PM EST
    is missing isn't it?So you found that too.  it says the video is no longer available...i thought it was my imagination but..hmmmm

    Parent
    I shall try and (none / 0) (#186)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 08:32:23 PM EST
    penetrate the darkness and fof surrounding you.

    Aint either one of them tar tapes available fer looking at by eny one.

    Hope that helps.

    Parent

    Yes. Yes indeed...... (none / 0) (#113)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:52:42 PM EST


    Parent
    The reporting is that Emmanuel talked (none / 0) (#76)
    by Joelarama on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:10:58 PM EST
    to Blago.  I assume any such call would be on tape because Fitz had had the wiretaps in place since mid-October.

    Parent
    the reporting yesterday was that Rahm (none / 0) (#99)
    by DFLer on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:35:12 PM EST
    was the one who sicced Fitz on Blago re the Senator thing....precipitating an early arrest. Here's one link...I heard it on TV

    Link

    Parent

    Lots of 'may haves' in there (none / 0) (#127)
    by ruffian on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 01:20:53 PM EST
    That is no more then speculation and wishful thinking.

    Parent
    Hey, it's on Huff Post. What more (none / 0) (#130)
    by oculus on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 01:34:53 PM EST
    do you need?

    Parent
    JJJr presser (5.00 / 5) (#163)
    by jedimom on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 04:48:29 PM EST
    saw JJJr get chocked up about his baby sister calling him to say she is proud of him, were I an intrepid reporter I would have shouted out, Did ya cry like that at Katrina Jesse?

    but of course that is why I am not a reporter....

    I was hoping that would happen (none / 0) (#167)
    by ruffian on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 05:00:52 PM EST
    Little bit of payback.


    Parent
    What was Jesse Jackson Jr. Thinking!!! (5.00 / 1) (#178)
    by WS on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 07:39:54 PM EST
    This will end his Senate aspirations.  Instead, he can move up the House ranks, but I bet he really wanted to be a Senator.  

    See?!? I told you so! (none / 0) (#1)
    by Exeter on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 10:48:32 AM EST
    This is how things are done in Chicago. You want something done and you pad the other guys campaign war chest. Pay to play. They don't consider it corruption if you benefit from it from a campaign stand point and not personally. I don't agree with that sentiment, but that's Chicago politics.

    I don't recall (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by Steve M on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 10:50:13 AM EST
    anyone disagreeing with you on that point, but I do recall people, including myself, explaining to you that Blagojevich is not merely accused of seeking campaign fundraising in exchange for the Senate seat.  There are allegations that he sought lucrative jobs for himself and his wife, among other things.

    Parent
    I know, I know... (none / 0) (#37)
    by Exeter on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:36:37 AM EST
    ...and I said that I was not aware of the personal gain stuff involving his wife. My larger point, though, was that pay-to-play is a part of life in Chicago politics.  

    Parent
    JJJr always seemed...sleazy to me. (4.00 / 3) (#6)
    by Fabian on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 10:59:47 AM EST
    I understand the whole Politics thing but JJJr always acted sooooo...Republican for want of a better adjective.  Hyper competitive, like winning wasn't good enough, and the real objective was to not merely defeat the opponent but to destroy and humiliate the opponent.

    So it's no surprise that he seems to be mixed up with the seamy side of Chicago politics.

    Parent

    What did he do? (none / 0) (#8)
    by bluegal on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:11:45 AM EST
    What has Jr. done that makes him sleazy?  So what if he was ambitious? Is there anything wrong with that? What politician isn't ambitious?

    I do not think it is Jr at all and he was a vocal supporter of Obama in the primaries and although I don't think he was Obama's first choice for his replacement I do not think Obama was absolutely opposed to him.

    Also, Jr and Blago never got along over projects that would effect Jr.'s district and cause pollution.

    I know this might shock some people but Jackson wanted to make a name for himself separate of his father and has done positive things for his district.

    Parent

    If he's been so great in local politics (5.00 / 2) (#11)
    by Fabian on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:19:01 AM EST
    I would be more than happy if he stayed there.

    I don't like what I've seen of him.  If he has a good side, I didn't see it on the campaign trail.  Or if that was his good side, I don't want to see his bad side.

    Parent

    Explain (none / 0) (#13)
    by bluegal on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:22:05 AM EST
    What is it that he has done that has been so awful? It wouldn't happen to have anything to do with who he supported in the primary, would it?

    Jr. is not like his father and I think he has gotten a rather unfair shake because of his last name which is a shame. He has done a lot of good and would be a fine senator. The only problem is that he might have a hard time actually holding the seat because of his father.

    Parent

    It's not WHO he supported (5.00 / 5) (#22)
    by Fabian on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:27:37 AM EST
    It's how he supported him.

    I wouldn't like JJJr if he was Hillary's loudest cheerleader, or MJ Kilroy's or Al Franken's.  

    If JJJr is quality through and through, it'll show sooner or later.  If not, we'll find out sooner or later.


    Parent

    And I ask again (none / 0) (#28)
    by bluegal on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:32:57 AM EST
    what did he do wrong?  How was his support so awful that it it would make him "slimy" and disqualify him from being a Senator?  

    There are a lot of crooked and slimy politicians out there that deserve all the scorn that they do and don't get. Jesse Jackson's action have not earned him that right and it seems rather unfair and downright despicable that because this man like practically every politician around is ambitious and made clear of his ambitions is going to be crucified in the press.

    If he was really guilty I don't think he would be open with the Feds and going on record about his conversations with them to the press.  Unfortunately because he was so upfront about his ambitions it makes it easy to target him.

    Parent

    Um, it might be some things that he (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by ThatOneVoter on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:29:18 AM EST
    SAID during the primaries.
    JJjr's main problem is that he is a complete idiot. Politics will be better without him.

    Parent
    Don't cry forf me, Argentina. (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by oculus on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:34:48 AM EST


    Parent
    What did he say? (none / 0) (#30)
    by bluegal on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:33:55 AM EST
    Seriously. What did Jesse Jackson do besides supporting Obama in the primaries that made him this awful person.  It seems that Jesse is getting the Donna Brazile treatment.

    Parent
    What did he say? (5.00 / 6) (#33)
    by Steve M on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:35:07 AM EST
    He said Hillary didn't cry over frickin' Katrina!

    Parent
    Ok (1.66 / 3) (#41)
    by bluegal on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:41:08 AM EST
    So is there something wrong with that? Did Hillary cry over Katrina? I don't really care either way but does this make him a sleaze and unworthy of being a Senator?

    Parent
    Wow (5.00 / 4) (#47)
    by andgarden on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:43:51 AM EST
    Did you see the video?

    Parent
    I didn't (5.00 / 4) (#95)
    by lobary on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:28:30 PM EST
    Thanks for posting that link. His words that day disgust me.

    Parent
    In a word, yes (5.00 / 3) (#52)
    by Spamlet on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:50:03 AM EST
    IMHO.

    . . . does this make him a sleaze and unworthy of being a Senator?


    Parent
    Really? (none / 0) (#61)
    by bluegal on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:59:13 AM EST
    Wow that is a pretty low bar then for someone to be considered sleazy.  Glad we got that cleared up.

    Parent
    Me too (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by Spamlet on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:52:34 PM EST
    Speaks to the man's character. That matters.

    Parent
    Over the past year (4.78 / 14) (#48)
    by Steve M on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:44:25 AM EST
    I have gotten really tired of dealing with the sort of person who can see the argument that the Clintons ran a racist campaign, but completely fails to comprehend that saying "Hillary didn't cry over Katrina" is tantamount to saying "Hillary wasn't upset when all those black people were drowning."  So have a nice day.

    Parent
    CDS (n/t) (4.50 / 6) (#50)
    by Spamlet on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:45:44 AM EST


    Parent
    Heh (none / 0) (#53)
    by CST on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:50:28 AM EST
    I always thought that was funny too.  I mean, she probably didn't cry over Katrina.  And then I put it in context.  How'd you feel about what Gerry Ferraro said about Obama?  That if he wasn't black he wouldn't be where he was, or something like that.  There was probably some truth to that, Obama is black, it is part of him, and it obviously would be different if he weren't.

    That being said, it's not the truth behind the statement that matters it's the insinuation.  In one case, it insinuates that Hillary doesn't care about black people/ Katrina victims b/c she didn't "cry over" it.  The other statement insinuates that Obama didn't also earn it and doesn't deserve it, and that he's getting a free pass (and somehow didn't face any hardship for his race only benefit).

    So again, it's not the truth so much as the insinuation of the statement that's offensive.

    Parent

    Um, that's not what Ferraro said; (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by ThatOneVoter on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:52:01 AM EST
    in fact, Obama had said exactly the same thing.
    What's your point?

    Parent
    My point (none / 0) (#58)
    by CST on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:55:37 AM EST
    I know those weren't her exact words, I didn't look them up.

    That's fine if you thought there was no difference between her saying it and Obama saying it, I strongly disagree and think it's a huge difference.

    I don't want to get into an argument about Ferraro, I was trying to make a point about JJJR in a way bluegal might relate to.

    Parent

    I understand your point, but (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by ThatOneVoter on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:19:10 PM EST
    the comparison between Ferraro and JJjr doesn't hold up. First of all, you make an assumption that Hillary didn't "cry" about Katrina. Really???
    I really doubt that.
    Then, you blame Ferraro for agreeing with Obama, while Hillary said nothing equivalent to what JJjr said.

    Parent
    Not equivalent statements (none / 0) (#105)
    by CST on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:40:59 PM EST
    But equivalent reactions to the statements, and I think the fact that it is an insinuation rather than the statement itself was the main substance of my point.

    I don't know if Hillary cried over Katrina or not, I wouldn't be surprised either way and I don't think the answer to that question means anything about her personaly.

    I do think there is a big difference between someone being self-deprecating and someone else making the same statement about them, it turns a self-deprecating statement into a belittling one.

    Parent

    Please don't play dumb (5.00 / 6) (#45)
    by shoephone on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:43:24 AM EST
    It was well-reported during the campaign that JJJr basically threatened Rep. Emanuel Cleaver (a Clinton supporter) with the following:

    "If it comes down to the last day and you're the only superdelegate? ... Do you want to go down in history as the one to prevent a black from winning the White House?"

    According to other reports, JJJr tried similar tactics with Rep. John Lewis.

    But maybe you're having a case of selective memory.

    Parent

    Supporting Obama is fine (5.00 / 2) (#138)
    by ruffian on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 02:41:18 PM EST
    Berating Hillary Clinton for, and I paraphrase closely, 'crying about her hair and not hurricane Katrina victems' is a whole other thing.

    Parent
    Are you suggesting that Donna Brazille (5.00 / 1) (#155)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 03:45:07 PM EST
    never said, or did, anything destructive toward Hillary Clinton and her campaign? Are you suggesting Brazille wasn't totally in the tank for Obama?

    Parent
    BS!! (none / 0) (#36)
    by hairspray on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:36:22 AM EST


    Parent
    Wasn't it the JJJr memo which painted (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by hairspray on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:35:20 AM EST
    the Clinons as racist? That crossed the line for many Democrats who may have voted for Obama but haven't forgotten that.  He was responsible for much of that and I would call that sleezy.

    Parent
    JJJr (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by lilburro on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:04:56 PM EST
    did not put out the memo.  An SC campaign staffer did IIRC.

    Parent
    And who told the staffer to do so? (none / 0) (#77)
    by hairspray on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:11:23 PM EST
    Just who are these unnamed staffers who take the fall?  Just like the AbuGhraib  Only Grainer and Lindy something or other ended up punished.  By the way what does IIRC mean?

    Parent
    IIRC = if I remember correctly (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by Don in Seattle on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:26:57 PM EST


    Parent
    S.C. staffers complete name and title (none / 0) (#79)
    by oculus on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:15:04 PM EST
    are at the bottom of the memo.

    Parent
    Okay so they were named. Sean Wilentz (none / 0) (#91)
    by hairspray on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:25:40 PM EST
    in Race Man writes about the pattern of race baiting by the Obama campaign. That is known.  So the only thing we have on JJJr is his video clip saying that "we need to examine Clinton's tears......and see she didn't cry for Katrina?" So he's out of the race baiting loop.  If so, Karma comes round and he may not pay for that sin but he may end up paying for being #5.

    Parent
    JJ jr. was the National Co-chair of (5.00 / 1) (#158)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 04:16:42 PM EST
    Obama's entire Presidential Campaign. So, it's probably safe to assume that he didn't limit his anti-Clinton smears (racial or otherwise) to the remark that "she didn't cry for the victims of Katrina".

    You want a LINK, here 'tis from Salon:

    In an appearance today on MSNBC, Jackson [the younger] said that Clinton's "tears" are something that "we're still analyzing within the Barack Obama campaign."

    "Those tears also have to be analyzed," Jackson said. "They have to be looked at very, very carefully in light of Katrina, in light of other things that Mrs. Clinton did not cry for, particularly as we head to South Carolina where 45 percent of African-Americans will participate in the Democratic contest, and they see real hope in Barack Obama."

    Jackson continued: "We saw something very clever in the last week of this campaign ... We saw a sensitivity factor, something that Mrs. Clinton has not been able to do with voters that she tried in New Hampshire. Not in response to voters. Not in response to Katrina, not in response to other issues that have devastated the American people -- the war in Iraq -- we saw tears in response to her appearance. So her appearance brought her to tears, but not Hurricane Katrina."




    Parent
    Link? (none / 0) (#39)
    by bluegal on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:39:33 AM EST
    Seriously. Do you have a link to that of which you accuse Jr. of doing?

    You know there were many blacks who thought that the Clinton campaign engaged in some rather questionable tactics and they weren't part of the Obama campaign.  Jack and Jill Politics had a wiki dedicated to such and they were not affiliated with the campaign.

    If you have proof of these actions then provide them.

    Parent

    Hey, if you think that JJjr is a credit (5.00 / 2) (#46)
    by ThatOneVoter on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:43:27 AM EST
    to the Obama organization, you have a future in many dead-end careers, with your judgment.

    Parent
    I'm not giving him credit (none / 0) (#63)
    by bluegal on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:00:51 PM EST
    for being part of the Obama organization.  I'm simply defending him from appalling attacks.

    Parent
    Bluegal (5.00 / 7) (#83)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:16:53 PM EST
    if you were paying so little attention during the campaign that you truly have no idea what the beef is against JJJr., you're in no position to defend him.

    His behavior was so ugly that it will taint him pretty much forever in the eyes of Clinton supporters, and was apparently offensive enough to Obama himself that word got to Blago he didn't want him appointed to the Senate seat.  According to the Blago tapes, he was actually threatening to appoint JJJr. specifically to get back at Obama.

    Parent

    Way he went after (5.00 / 2) (#195)
    by BackFromOhio on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:22:55 PM EST
    his own father in public was, to me, a reflection of truly poor character.

    Parent
    Look (none / 0) (#90)
    by bluegal on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:23:04 PM EST
    You just proved my point above. I understand from an electoral issue why Obama wouldn't see him as a first choice and it's not because he wouldn't be good as a Senator but because of his last name which is unfortunate.

    No one has yet to provide support for his alleged hideous actions during the campaign that would make him a sleazy politician. Until someone provides some evidence that doesn't include those that already  have a bizarre hatred towards Jesse because of his last name,  I'm going to continue to speak out against these appalling attacks on someone who has done a lot of good and is a good progressive.

    This is truly the Donna Brazile treatment.

    Parent

    Um, Donna Brazile is a dishonest, (5.00 / 2) (#96)
    by ThatOneVoter on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:30:24 PM EST
    sleazy pol. Are you saying that JJjr is about the same as her? I think Donna's worse, FWIW.

    Parent
    Really? (none / 0) (#101)
    by bluegal on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:36:14 PM EST
    Why? She supported Obama?

    There is a pattern here that is quite disturbing and the treatment of Donna Brazile because of who she supported is appalling.  The attacks that were lodged at her including calling her "brillohead" were despicable.

    When did Donna Brazile become a politician? Like I said there is a disturbing pattern in the attacks and I know I'm not the only one who recognizes it.

    Parent

    Big Tent Democrat (5.00 / 5) (#106)
    by andgarden on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:41:45 PM EST
    Rightly called her the "most harmful democrat" in April.

    And that's just the first thing.

    Parent

    You have got to be kidding me (none / 0) (#108)
    by bluegal on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:48:37 PM EST
    Is her statement not correct that it would have been a disaster for the primary to remain unresolved until the convention?  Did we not see how it turned out with Jimmy Carter and Ted Kennedy? Since when have contested conventions been good for a party's chances in the general?

    Also, did she blame Hillary or those around her? Is there anyone who thought that Mark Penn actually had Hillary's best interest in mind? Seriously?

    I am truly stunned that those words would make Donna Brazile the worst person ever in the Democratic Party and worthy of the despicable and often racist scorn that she received.

    Parent

    It's just the tip of the iceberg (5.00 / 5) (#114)
    by andgarden on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:53:34 PM EST
    Brazile has been a destructive force in the Democratic party for a very long time. This was particularly egregious.

    And racist attacks? Not any from anyone I know or respect.

    Parent

    Why any fault? (5.00 / 3) (#115)
    by CST on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:54:12 PM EST
    That is the point.  You could easily have blamed Obama for "wanting to take it to the convention".

    The fact of the matter is, Obama hadn't won yet, not everyone had voted, and in the end, when they had voted, it was practicly a tie, so there were plenty of reasons for either of them to "take it to the convention".  There is no reason that in APRIL, Brazille should've been calling for Hillary's people to be less agressive in fighting for the nomination.

    Parent

    Actually (none / 0) (#120)
    by bluegal on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 01:01:41 PM EST
    Delegate speaking which is how the nomination is decided it was next to impossible mathematically  for HRC to overtake Obama back in March. I had no problem with the primaries playing out and everyone voting until June but going by the nomination process, the math wasn't there.  The problem was people like Mark Penn who were talking about taking it to the convention and nonsense pledged delegate switches knowing this fact and such talk would have already made a very competitive and heated primary even more so. It would have been a disaster and everyone knew it.  

    I would not have appreciated Obama's folks talking about taking it to the convention if they were in the opposite situation. I love my country too much to have given the Republicans the WH again.

    So again, what did Donna do to deserve such scorn?

    Parent

    "next to impossible" (5.00 / 2) (#123)
    by CST on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 01:11:49 PM EST
    Does not make it impossible.  In fact, it almost happened.  Especially if you consider the popular vote part of the "math".  No pledged delegates would've had to switch for Hillary to have the nomination, just super-delegates - who could make a pretty good case for switching to the popular vote winner.

    Brazille should not have been talking about the nomination as if it was already decided when it wasn't, and many people hadn't voted yet.

    Parent

    Especially while she kinda, sorta pretended (5.00 / 5) (#126)
    by andgarden on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 01:15:19 PM EST
    to be neutral.

    Parent
    That was the most obnoxious thing. (5.00 / 3) (#134)
    by lilburro on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 02:15:03 PM EST
    She should've just said she supported Obama.  As she clearly did.

    Parent
    Stop making up sh*T (2.00 / 1) (#150)
    by ThatOneVoter on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 03:05:37 PM EST
    In fact, Hillary won the popular vote, and probably would have won the nomination if Brazile had not conspired to keep MI and FL from counting.

    Parent
    "It scares me" (5.00 / 2) (#118)
    by Fabian on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 01:01:11 PM EST
    Wow.  Are those the words that you want to hear coming from the spokesperson of your party?

    We have our act together!  We can deal with anything!  Floor fight?  Democracy in action!  Dissent?  Vital to thriving party!  

    "It scares me,"

    Fear, doubt, uncertainty.  Frakking brilliant.  

    Parent

    Brazile works in politics. (5.00 / 4) (#111)
    by Fabian on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:52:34 PM EST
    Her employer is the DNC.  Just because she doesn't hold elected office (there's a humorous thought!) doesn't mean that she doesn't practice politics.

    Parent
    What's wrong with JJSr? (5.00 / 2) (#97)
    by Fabian on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:30:31 PM EST
    I like the guy.  Did he get into trouble with the law?

    Parent
    You're hilarious (5.00 / 3) (#98)
    by andgarden on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:31:26 PM EST
    And frankly, You're wasting your time.

    Parent
    I think you will find` (5.00 / 5) (#132)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 01:39:32 PM EST
    that many of the folks here who have a low opinion of JJJr. are fans of Sr.  I voted for his dad twice and would gladly vote for him again.

    Problem is you are just making stuff up to suit some narrative you've invented, and it doesn't have much to do with reality.

    Parent

    Attacks? (none / 0) (#75)
    by Fabian on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:10:46 PM EST
    What?  Calling him a Republican?  I'm sure that was totally devastating and a blow to his honor and integrity.  

    Parent
    No (3.00 / 1) (#86)
    by bluegal on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:19:03 PM EST
    The attacks of him are clearly because he supported Obama in the primary and not Hillary. It is more than obvious as no one has been able to cite a reason why he is a sleazy politician unworthy of the Senate seat without mention him being an Obama supporter. Have you looked at his record and what he has done for his district? The man is a good progressive voice.

    It is what I call the "Donna Brazile treatment" and it is appalling.

    Parent

    Turn your point around. You have not (5.00 / 2) (#89)
    by ThatOneVoter on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:20:54 PM EST
    been able to cite one reason why JJjr is a good Congressman, while concrete reasons he's disreputable have been offered.
    Why don't you just give it up.

    Parent
    Donna Brazile earned it. (5.00 / 6) (#92)
    by Fabian on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:26:40 PM EST
    She could be my twin sister and I still wouldn't have supported the disingenuous cr@p she spewed and was party to.

    Regarding "honor and integrity" - the Democratic Party showed the full extent of theirs during the primary and during the Rules Committee meeting.

    Rules are rules?  Transparency?  Too bad SNL never did a skit.  

    Parent

    Nonsense (5.00 / 6) (#119)
    by Spamlet on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 01:01:36 PM EST
    And it's also untrue that "no one has been able to cite a reason why he is a sleazy politician unworthy of the Senate seat without mention[ing] him being an Obama supporter."

    Several people have mentioned that the issue is the manner in which Jackson supported Obama--that is, by slandering Senator Clinton as a racist. That is what's appalling, not the so-called "attacks" on Jackson for how he actually behaved.

    We don't know yet if the allegations about his efforts to buy Obama's seat in the Senate will prove to be unfounded or not, so people here are criticizing Jackson for his observed behavior during the primaries, not for unproved allegations.

    But clearly you will brook no criticism of Jackson whatsover. In my opinion, we have better progressive voices out there. Also in my opinion, you seem like a troll, so as someone said to you earlier, have a nice day.

    Parent

    The problem is (none / 0) (#131)
    by bluegal on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 01:35:35 PM EST
    that no one has cited where Jackson called the Clintons racist. Calling someone a racist is a pretty steep charge and if Jackson did it all I am asking is for proof.

    Commenters and writers calling Donna Brazile a "brillohead" is racist and should be called such.

    The list is too long to list his accomplishments which would hardly be considered sleazy. I could start with education, health care, AIDS, the environment, better jobs. Just to name a few of his many applauded accomplishments that actually you know, benefit his constituents.

    It's a shame that he is being called sleazy for who he supported in the primary.


    Parent

    You really are playing dumb aren't (5.00 / 0) (#67)
    by hairspray on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:07:34 PM EST
    you?  Try this, since my link-o-meter doesn't work.
    The New Republic

    Race Man
     by Sean Wilentz
    How Barack Obama played the race card and blamed Hillary Clinton.
    Post Date Wednesday, February 27, 2008

    Parent

    Sean Wilentz?!?! (2.00 / 0) (#73)
    by bluegal on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:10:30 PM EST
    Are you serious? That is your proof?

    Unbelievable.

    Parent

    Why? because he supports the Clintons (5.00 / 2) (#94)
    by hairspray on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:27:16 PM EST
    against the press? he has an impressive resume and is well respected.  And your sources are???

    Parent
    Um (none / 0) (#104)
    by bluegal on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:39:07 PM EST
    Have you read his work? No, seriously. He made some pretty wild accusations with no proof which lost him quite a bit of respect.

    I have no problem with people supporting the Clintons or even defending them in the press but when people in their attempt to defend them throw out wild accusations and present them as fact, they lose all credibility.

    Parent

    Link? Proof of his fall from Grace! (none / 0) (#107)
    by hairspray on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:48:36 PM EST


    Parent
    How about Wilentz's attempt to establish a (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by liberalone on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 03:02:33 PM EST
    relationship between Obama and Ayers.  In the newsweek article, "A Liberal's Lament," he carelessly throws around the favorite

    ...more-than-informal ties to the unrepentant terrorist William Ayers...

    http://www.newsweek.com/id/154911/page/1

    Wilentz disgraced himself by using right wing propaganda.

    Parent

    Actually I thought the article was (none / 0) (#159)
    by hairspray on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 04:35:19 PM EST
    quite good.  The long association with Ayers seems to be a correct characterization in that he qualifies it as a professional one.  He did not say a long personal relationship.  There are quite a few sources that indicate Ayers and Obama were more than "waving across the room" colleagues.  That said, I do not believe it conotes a radical political relationship.  But Mr. Ayers is an odious character and I am mystified that he is where he is today given his past and how others with lesser crimes were punished more severely.

    Parent
    Odious?? (none / 0) (#169)
    by squeaky on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 05:08:27 PM EST
    BILL AYERS is distinguished professor at the University of Illinois at Chicago, and founder of both the Small Schools Workshop and the Center for Youth and Society. He is the author of fifteen books on teaching and children's rights, as well as his recent, unflinching memoir, Fugitive Days.

    link

    Parent

    He never paid for his crimes. Doesn't (5.00 / 1) (#179)
    by hairspray on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 07:42:03 PM EST
    that bother you or does it not matter because he committed crimes against American citizens who are you know, uninformed.

    Parent
    What Price? (none / 0) (#182)
    by squeaky on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 07:52:01 PM EST
    In 1973, the federal government requested the dismissal of the charges against the couple [Ayers and Dohrn] in the interest of national security following accusations of government misconduct,"[17] but state charges against Dohrn remained. Dohrn was still reluctant to turn herself in to authorities. "He was sweet and patient, as he always is, to let me come to my senses on my own", she later said of Ayers.[3] She turned herself in to authorities in 1980. She was fined $1,500 and given three years probation.[18]

    Wiki

    My guess is that his biggest crime, in your eyes, is that he supported Obama. Again Ayers hardly seems odious to me.

    If he had to pay $1,500 and was given three years probation, would you think him less odious? Seems to me that he is a very productive member of society and well respected by his peers.

    Parent

    Id give you some other links that are (5.00 / 1) (#190)
    by hairspray on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 10:26:44 PM EST
    not GOP ones, but even that I doubt you would read. You want to believe that this person who was the head of the Weather Underground and planned and executed attacks that killed at least one police officer and injured many others is now a paragon of virtue.  He still dissembles and distorts his past and the liberal media is willing to let him get away with it. He even dedicated one of his books to Sirhan Sirhan. Google Terrorist Bill Ayers Misrepresents His Past  Written by William F. Jasper  
    Sunday, 16 November 2008. His case was thrown out on a technicality.  His father was an executive for a large corporation and that probably had something to do with his defense. He was odious and to this day is unrepentant.  And don't give me this academic BS.  I was one for years and know a lot of frauds in the ranks.

    Parent
    Unsolved Crime (5.00 / 1) (#191)
    by squeaky on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 10:37:29 PM EST
    attacks that killed at least one police officer and injured many others is now a paragon of virtue.

    You must hate him most because of his link to Obama.

    And again I ask, what would be your punishment for his alleged crimes? How do you feel about his partner Dohrn? She was punished. Does that make you feel ok about her?

    He was the citizen of the year in Chicago.

    BTW, the link I provided was a quote from Ayers' prosecutor. I think he may know more about the case than your hateful speculations.

    Oh and his father was president of Consolidated Edison of Chicago.

    Parent

    um, try using a SMALL amount of (5.00 / 2) (#193)
    by ThatOneVoter on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 10:51:34 PM EST
    logic. OBviously we don't hate everyone associated with Obama. We are fine with Hillary, Biden, and a host of others.
    When you state that we can't stand peoplee who support Obama, you are either lying or braindead.
    Ayers is  a scumbag, period.

    Parent
    OK (5.00 / 1) (#194)
    by squeaky on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:11:08 PM EST
    Your case is no case, if calling him a name is all you can muster.

    OBviously we don't hate everyone associated with Obama. We are fine with Hillary....

    now that is hilarious.

    Parent

    He's an admitted terrorist. What more (5.00 / 1) (#198)
    by ThatOneVoter on Thu Dec 11, 2008 at 08:36:32 AM EST
    do you f*cking want???

    Parent
    BS (none / 0) (#199)
    by squeaky on Thu Dec 11, 2008 at 01:16:19 PM EST
    Admitted terrorist? Are those your words or his? You sound like a right wing hack from BushCo. Were you a fan of the Vietnam War as well? Were the kids killed at Kent State terrorists as well in your mind.

    Ayers is a respected member of his community, has not been convicted of any crimes. He was selected as citizen of the year in 1997, published 15 books, started 2 educational foundations to help at risk youth, secured a 50 million dollar grant from Annenberg Foundation to help youth in Chicago inner city schools.

    How's your resume?

    "I don't regret setting bombs. I feel we didn't do enough." Three days after the terrorist attacks, Ayers clarified: "My memoir is, from start to finish, a condemnation of terrorism . . ."

    This is in the context of the Vietnam war.

    Every generation needs a new revolution.
    Thomas Jefferson



    Parent
    Yes, he is an odious man (5.00 / 1) (#181)
    by ThatOneVoter on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 07:46:39 PM EST
    Just because his parents' wealth bought him rehabilitation doesn't change the fact of his past, and his lack of remorse for his terrorist acts.

    Parent
    Parents Wealth? (none / 0) (#184)
    by squeaky on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 08:04:17 PM EST
    You are FOS.

    But before the trial even began, some of the defense lawyers asserted their offices had been broken into and searched, Ibershof said.

    He also discovered the government had illegally bugged some of the defendants. "I had a sizable room full of files with wiretaps that were not obtained by court order," he said.

    The illegal tactics were ordered by Atty. Gen. John N. Mitchell and FBI assistant director W. Mark Felt, who was later unmasked as the Watergate scandal's "Deep Throat," Ibershof said. They were part of a plan, exposed during the Watergate hearings, to use "espionage techniques" to gather intelligence on domestic foes.

    Even after the revelations, Ibershof believed that he could have prevailed. But after a federal judge ordered a sweeping hearing on the burglary and surveillance charges, the government decided in 1973 to drop the case in the interests of national security, he said.

    link

    Parent

    um, he fled the country!!! (5.00 / 1) (#192)
    by ThatOneVoter on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 10:48:14 PM EST
    and his parents are extremely wealthy.  Furthermore, the scumbag has ADMITTED his acts, and shows no remorse.
    Trial and conviction are irrelevant, given that he freely admits his crimes.
    Obviously he is intelligent---you should take him at his word when he admits having been a terrorist.

    BTW, Angela Davis is/was a professor too

    Parent

    Actually I thought the article was (none / 0) (#160)
    by hairspray on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 04:35:54 PM EST
    quite good.  The long association with Ayers seems to be a correct characterization in that he qualifies it as a professional one.  He did not say a long personal relationship.  There are quite a few sources that indicate Ayers and Obama were more than "waving across the room" colleagues.  That said, I do not believe it conotes a radical political relationship.  But Mr. Ayers is an odious character and I am mystified that he is where he is today given his past and how others with lesser crimes were punished more severely.

    Parent
    I remember a Jack and Jill Politics (5.00 / 2) (#109)
    by DFLer on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:49:37 PM EST
    diary (Aug 18) that also rallied against a Joe Biden VP nom, under the title of Why Biden's Racist Behind Ain't Gonna Be VP

    link

    So what? Just saying. In the end, some Obama supports were very selective in their judgments as to who would were the racist crown.

    Parent

    So Blago was not set to (none / 0) (#3)
    by ThatOneVoter on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 10:50:29 AM EST
    gain personally? What about his wife?

    Parent
    NBC Pete Williams is confirming (none / 0) (#78)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:11:54 PM EST
    it's JJJr.

    Somebody on the Fed side is apparently eager to take JJJr. down a peg.


    Parent

    Yikes. One of Obama's campaign (none / 0) (#4)
    by Joelarama on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 10:53:10 AM EST
    co-chairs.  Now the Republican smear machine will be able to claim that the scandal is inside the tent.

    I hope whatever Fitz has on tape between Emmanuel and Blag, if anything, is completely exculpatory.  If Fitz has such information, he ought to release it, and go beyond his statement that Obama and his campaign are not implicated in "this complaint."

    Shrug (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by Steve M on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 10:57:08 AM EST
    The campaign is now over.  Jackson wasn't Obama's pick for the Senate seat, and in fact, Blagojevich explicitly said in one of the wiretapped conversations that if Obama wouldn't give him anything, fine, he'd just choose Jackson (Candidate 5) instead.

    The Republicans will certainly try their best to tie Obama to this scandal, but I don't think Jackson's role gives them any additional ammo in that regard.

    Parent

    I am one of those who believes (5.00 / 6) (#7)
    by Joelarama on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:08:33 AM EST
    the never-ending scandals of the Clinton years were more a product of the Republican political culture (smear machine) and a scandal-loving press, than the Clintons themselves (particularly pre-Monica).

    I don't think either of those two things have changed.  

    Parent

    I agree (5.00 / 3) (#9)
    by andgarden on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:12:10 AM EST
    I just reread The Hunting of the President. We do not need a "Chicago Project," but I think we ought to expect one.

    Parent
    Great reading. I ought to re-read (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Joelarama on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:21:18 AM EST
    that as well.  Aren't you a first year in law school?  Kudos for finding the time to read something other than cases.

    Parent
    Oh, I don't have time. . . (none / 0) (#23)
    by andgarden on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:27:59 AM EST


    Parent
    Well (5.00 / 4) (#27)
    by Steve M on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:32:09 AM EST
    I am not so scarred by the 90s that I believe the Republicans have the ability to rerun Whitewater any time they please.

    Among other things, the beauty of Whitewater was that nobody really understood what the scandal was even about, they just knew that the press kept talking about it.  Well, the idea that this governor was trying to sell Barack Obama's Senate seat is something everyone can understand.  The fact that Obama refused to offer him anything for it and that the governor was upset about that is also something everyone can understand.  I don't think people are going to be very receptive to a message that goes like "OMG, Obama's campaign co-chair, that drags him right back into it!"

    Parent

    Yes, perhaps this is about me being (none / 0) (#42)
    by Joelarama on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:41:52 AM EST
    scarred by the 90s.

    Well, let's just see how much the press has changed, and how much the right-wing smear machine can achieve.  Their efforts may be blunted by the real crises we face (economic meltdown etc) and Obama's admiration society in the press (I admire him too).

    But I see no evidence that the press or Republicans have changed, and it makes no sense not to expect that the same folks will stage a re-run.

    Parent

    Good grief (1.00 / 5) (#17)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:23:44 AM EST
    And I bet you said that with a straight face.

    To name a few....

    Mark Rich, 1100 Personal FBI files.... PR terrorists pardoned..... Jennifer Flowers.... Juanita Broaddrick...White Water...Lost billing records.... $100,000 magically made in commodities...Missile Technology to China...Chinagate....

    And I don't even go into Monica because I always thought that was just a guy with no morals getting a BJ from a babe who adored him...

    Parent

    QED (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by andgarden on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:26:57 AM EST


    Parent
    Please indulge me: What (none / 0) (#172)
    by MKS on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 05:57:11 PM EST
    does QED mean?

    Parent
    That which was to have been demonstrated (5.00 / 0) (#183)
    by andgarden on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 07:52:52 PM EST


    Parent
    from the Latin (5.00 / 0) (#197)
    by DFLer on Thu Dec 11, 2008 at 07:09:11 AM EST
    Quod Erat Demonstrandum

    Parent
    Nearly all of which were examined (5.00 / 4) (#20)
    by Joelarama on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:27:10 AM EST
    by an extremely zealous office of special counsel and came to . . . nothing.

    You just sit tight and wait.  This is how Republicans operate.  

    If Obama does better it will only be because he has more admirers in our high-school-level press.

    Parent

    Edit: Nearly all of which were examined (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by Joelarama on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:33:16 AM EST
    by a special counsel (some were too ludicrous even for his attention) and ALL of which came to nothing.

    Parent
    "Nearly all?" (none / 0) (#142)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 02:55:21 PM EST
    Glad to know you are with me.

    Which ones weren't?

    Parent

    Good grief is right. (5.00 / 4) (#21)
    by ThatOneVoter on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:27:37 AM EST
    Your list is so funny.
    Lost billing records? OMG---call Fitzgerald!
    Broaddrick? At least you can spell her name. Most of the morons who mention her can't. But what does a complaint that accuser recanted in court show?!
    White Water? It's quite clear that the Clintons wer engaged in no wrong doing.

    In 50 years, Republicans will still be talking about how horrible Clinton was.

    Parent

    He forgot Mena Airport (5.00 / 3) (#26)
    by andgarden on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:31:03 AM EST
    and the CIA cocaine smuggling.

    Parent
    And Vince Foster's "murder." nt (5.00 / 3) (#35)
    by Joelarama on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:35:42 AM EST


    Parent
    And Bill Clinton's birth certificate (none / 0) (#117)
    by Farmboy on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:57:50 PM EST
    not showing that he was born in Arkansas, or that Arkansas wasn't part of the US at the time, or some such thing.

    What was the right-wing mantra back in the day?  Something about absence of proof is not proof of absence?

    Parent

    Sorry I didn't see the movie (none / 0) (#143)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 02:56:23 PM EST
    Now, keep on trying to reframe.

    Doesn't work.

    Parent

    Joanna Broderick? Haaaa (none / 0) (#43)
    by hairspray on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:42:22 AM EST
    Why don't you go back to that GOP sink hole of slime that David Brock wrote about in "Blinded by the Right"?  Your list is crapo

    Parent
    I mean Juanita Broaddrick! (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by hairspray on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:54:58 AM EST
    She accused Clinton of rape, but unfortunately she never had any real proof and later recanted. These were the kind of women the GOP dug up and either paid or threatened to slime Bill without proof and the press wet their pants showing these made up stories over and over.  Will they try to slap Obama around too?  I wouldn't be surprised.

    Parent
    I wouldn't be surprised, and I do (none / 0) (#65)
    by Joelarama on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:06:05 PM EST
    have hope that Obama's treatment will be different, even if it's not because the press has changed fundamentally for the better.

    [By the way, anyone remember that those rape allegations resurfaced in the liberal blogosphere during the primary?]  

    Parent

    Really? I didn't hear that. (none / 0) (#85)
    by hairspray on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:18:15 PM EST


    Parent
    Adam B at DKos, for starters. nt (none / 0) (#156)
    by Joelarama on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 03:53:32 PM EST


    Parent
    Yes, Adam B actually argued that (none / 0) (#157)
    by ThatOneVoter on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 03:58:32 PM EST
    you couldn't discount J.B's allegations, even though she recanted them for the court---because Paula Jones also retracted her charges at some point!!
    And this guy is a lawyer???
    Must be a plaintiff's lawyer, right?

    Parent
    I wonder what he considers (none / 0) (#162)
    by hairspray on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 04:41:32 PM EST
    evidence?

    Parent
    married to novelist (none / 0) (#166)
    by Salo on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 04:56:27 PM EST
    Probably a GOP fugee too

    Parent
    That is because I left DKos and the (none / 0) (#161)
    by hairspray on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 04:40:36 PM EST
    crazies in fall of 2007.  I miss a few of the really good writers like Bonddad and Devilstower, but by and large I haven't missed them at all.

    Parent
    Recanted (none / 0) (#173)
    by MKS on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 06:04:55 PM EST
    I did not that....Wikipedia's entry on Juanita Broaddrick has some good info.....

    The story never made any sense to me at all--Bill always seemed so non-violent....

    Parent

    did not "know" that (none / 0) (#174)
    by MKS on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 06:06:19 PM EST


    Parent
    Well, if you mean tie (5.00 / 2) (#25)
    by dk on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:30:39 AM EST
    Obama to JJ Jr. in terms of criminal charges, I agree with this.  If, after a reasonable investigation, there's no evidence that Obama did anything criminal, then that's that.

    But, from a political standpoint, I think it's fair, and in my opinion it should be encouraged, to question Obama's judgment for his working relationship with JJ Jr., if it turns out he is Candidate #5 and the allegations are true.

    As BTD said yesterday, there should be no sacred cows.  If Obama is relying on crooks to help run his campaign, or his administration, we should be concerned, and we should demand more transparency, and we should demand that he gets more honorable people around him.  He works for us now.

    Parent

    In my opinion (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by Steve M on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:34:35 AM EST
    it is too late to demand accountability regarding Obama's campaign.  The campaign is over.  He's not going to retroactively fire anyone.

    I am more than happy to hold Obama's feet to the fire in terms of how he runs his administration, but that doesn't mean I'm particularly interested in an overarching discussion of his "associations" outside of that context.  We already went through that battle.

    Parent

    I wasn't really referring to (none / 0) (#44)
    by dk on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:42:53 AM EST
    firing anyone retroactively.  What I meant was that bringing this to light and questioning Obama's judgment (if JJ Jr. is #5 and the allegations are proven true) may have positive effecs for the future.  First, it would help demonstrate the more corrupt elements of Obama's campaign, which could perhaps propel efforts not to allow such things to happen in future campaigns, and it might force Obama to be more careful in whom he picks as his advisors and appointments in the future.

    Sometimes we can learn from the past.

    Parent

    I think Obama has been plenty careful (none / 0) (#175)
    by MKS on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 06:12:22 PM EST
    in the selection of his cabinet....All the choices seem honest and capable--even if one may not like their views....

    The Republicans want to bring up the "bad associations" mantra--but we are past that....He has proven he is no radical....Blogo was really, really mad he wasn't getting anything from the Obama camp....That should really end this but it won't...There is always one more question that should, has to be, must be asked....

    Parent

    Yes, I agree (none / 0) (#180)
    by WS on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 07:44:17 PM EST
    The Governor was there before Obama and was actually more powerful than Obama for much of his political career.  He shouldn't be blamed for having a corrupt Democratic governor.  You have to have dealings with him because they're in the same home state especially as an Illinois Democrat.  

    Parent
    And that means his stupid speech (5.00 / 5) (#59)
    by hairspray on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:56:07 AM EST
    writers.

    Parent
    My early-Obama-adopter female (5.00 / 2) (#66)
    by oculus on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:06:34 PM EST
    friends knew nothing last night about the Favreau incident.  

    Parent
    Why should they? (none / 0) (#80)
    by Fabian on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:15:10 PM EST
    The campaign is over and the media needs to schmooze the incoming administration.  Amazing how they got all serious.  No more OMG-Obama! or OMG-Palin! or OMG-McCain!

    oh, yeah and OMG-Biden!

    Parent

    I think there is a more than 50% chance (5.00 / 2) (#38)
    by Exeter on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:38:22 AM EST
    that Obama engaged in pay-to-play at some point in his career.

    Parent
    Wow (none / 0) (#144)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 02:58:22 PM EST
    You are in a heap of trouble.

    Parent
    As you are no doubt aware, (none / 0) (#189)
    by Spamlet on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 10:17:24 PM EST
    what you think does not constitute evidence and is therefore irrelevant except for its inherent power to entertain you and possibly others.

    Parent
    Look on the bright side. (none / 0) (#14)
    by Fabian on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:22:22 AM EST
    They get caught and taken out of circulation.

    It's worse when there is corruption and everyone shrugs and says "That's just the way it is." and then whine when their government fails them.  

    Oh, my goodness (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:40:58 AM EST
    Only the ones who get caught get charged and taken out of circulation-- by the feds.

    Parent
    Too bad their own party (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by Fabian on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:58:14 AM EST
    doesn't take them down.  Power for the sake of power isn't restricted to Republicans, unfortunately.  

    Parent
    It is only a bit better (none / 0) (#102)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:36:29 PM EST
    It looks as if all of the news reports post Blago go out of their way to imply that Blago is alone in this.   Who was he having discussions with?  What were they offering?

    Parent
    Why didn't you copy this? (5.00 / 1) (#122)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 01:08:46 PM EST
    CHICAGO, ILL. -- Now that Barack Obama will be moving to the White House, his seat in the U.S. Senate representing Illinois will have to be filled.

    That's one of Obama's first priorities today.

    He's meeting with Governor Rod Blagojevich this afternoon in Chicago to discuss it.

    Illinois law states that the governor chooses that replacement.

    The above quote is from the news story in your link.

    So we have this story re the meeting and we have Axlerod's statement.... And we know that Blago threw a hissy fit that he couldn't get any money..

    Did Blago ask Obama for a bribe? And did Obama fail to report it? Wouldn't that be a cover up?

    Obstruction of justice??


    Parent

    I don't think so (none / 0) (#165)
    by befuddledvoter on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 04:54:04 PM EST
    Now, if Obama were ASKED by a gov. official in the course of his duties and he denied that Blago asked for money or denied meeting with him, and has done so, then that COULD be obstruction.  Not necessarily though.  

    WIKI:

    United States federal law
    "Misprision of felony" is still an offense under United States federal law after being codified in 1909 under 18 U.S.C. § 4:

    Whoever, having knowledge of the actual commission of a felony cognizable by a court of the United States, conceals and does not as soon as possible make known the same to some judge or other person in civil or military authority under the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

    This offense, however, requires active concealment of a known felony rather than merely failing to report it.[6]


    Parent

    When is a President - elect off? (none / 0) (#185)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 08:27:26 PM EST
    Working miracles, evaluating us in the world's view and fixing the economy seems to be a 24/7 type of thing.

    Parent
    Quick. (none / 0) (#125)
    by Fabian on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 01:13:37 PM EST
    Let's rip a page out of the Republican handbook:

    It's the "criminalization of politics"!

    It's not really a "culture of corruption".

    My husband says there are two reasons that his company doesn't do business in countries that do have a culture of corruption.  The first is that the "price" they would put on a contract would have to take into account all of the extortion, graft and bribes that everyone involved would demand.  

    Second, the corruption extends to more than just paying kickbacks to everybody.  When a system is installed, the contract says that it must be maintained properly at the customer's expense.  Well, that takes money and money has a way of vanishing into people's pockets.  Inevitably, there will be demands for service (without paying for a service contract) and assistance because the system is malfunctioning.  Big surprise.  So the government buys a barely adequate system, fails to maintain it and gets lousy service from it - because the money that should have been spent on a capable & reliable system was diverted.

    And the supplier gets a reputation for lousy equipment and poor service.  

    Parent

    Talk to a lawyer... (none / 0) (#18)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:26:25 AM EST
    Jackson Jr. said he agreed to talk with federal investigators "as quickly as possible" after he consults with a lawyer..... [He] denied that anyone had been authorized to make payments or promises to the Governor on his behalf.

    Glad he is doing that. Libby didn't and look what happened to him.

    Oh, yes (5.00 / 3) (#56)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:53:13 AM EST
    Poor naive Scooter <choke!>

    Parent
    yadda yadda (1.00 / 1) (#110)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 12:51:28 PM EST


    Parent
    yadda yadda (none / 0) (#145)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 02:59:13 PM EST


    Parent
    Look what "happened" to Libby? (5.00 / 1) (#153)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 03:42:27 PM EST
    You mean, look what Libby did to himself!

    Parent
    Triple J's lawyers due to (none / 0) (#135)
    by oldpro on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 02:19:15 PM EST
    make a statement and Junior will also hold a news conference this afternoon.

    Stay tuned...

    No Drama Obama (none / 0) (#136)
    by Fabian on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 02:23:07 PM EST
    will be standing far away looking as Presidential as he can!

    Not sure what to expect from JJJr.  But Obama?  Easy enough.

    Parent

    Heh, I can just visualize right down (5.00 / 3) (#137)
    by nycstray on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 02:38:14 PM EST
    to the upward head tilt . . . .

    Parent
    ha! You must have seen the picture (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by ruffian on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 02:46:14 PM EST
    of Obama and Blago that was in the Orlando newspaper this morning. Alas, it is not in the web version of thew paper. Perfectly fits your description.

    Parent
    was it this one? (none / 0) (#164)
    by jedimom on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 04:50:39 PM EST
    was it this one? scroll down:

    http://tinyurl.com/62883k

    I couldn't resist recasting Blago as Fredo..it just fit so perfectly, LOL

    Parent

    One from the same event (none / 0) (#168)
    by ruffian on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 05:07:46 PM EST
    With a little more of a side angle, but yes, the same thing.

    Now, I don't read as much into that pose as others - maybe you keep would your head back to stay awake and not have it fall the other way - but it sure is ripe for charicature.

    Parent

    OMG, the upward head tilt.... (5.00 / 1) (#154)
    by vml68 on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 03:43:31 PM EST
    I swear everytime I saw that nose in the air pose, I would have to stifle the urge to throw something at the TV. It was particularly bad during one of the debates with Clinton and my boyfriend who had not been paying attention at all, looked up and said "WTH is he doing?"

    Parent
    Ansd he answer is (none / 0) (#187)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 08:34:24 PM EST
    being Obama!!!!!!!!!!

    Parent
    I say this as an Obama supporter (now anyway) (none / 0) (#140)
    by progressiveinvolvement on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 02:51:45 PM EST
    but what's curious to me is:  

    (1)  "Senate candidate no. 5"--JJJr.--would have been picked in order to stiff Obama, which is odd since JJJr was a National Campaign Co-Chair.  Obama would be opposed to his selection?

    (2)  Axelrod asserts (now) that nobody talked to Blagojevich, yet how did Blago come to know that Valeria Jarrett was Obama's choice for the seat?  Somebody pretty much had to talk to somebody.

    I don't think (5.00 / 1) (#141)
    by Steve M on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 02:53:29 PM EST
    that Axelrod is saying there were no contacts with Blagojevich, just that he was mistaken in saying that Obama talked with him personally.

    Parent
    Oh no... (none / 0) (#170)
    by ruffian on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 05:09:03 PM EST
    WARM

    an acronym is born

    Parent

    so long as they swea... (none / 0) (#188)
    by Salo on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 08:36:36 PM EST
    ...r the kid in I dont care I just don't want Biden to be President.

    Parent
    But you are so wrong. (none / 0) (#200)
    by ThatOneVoter on Thu Dec 11, 2008 at 01:16:42 PM EST
    Biden can't sell a war---Obama can.
    Similary, Cheney as President would not have been able to sell the Iraq war, IMO.

    Parent
    Well, (5.00 / 1) (#146)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 03:00:53 PM EST
    since Obama promoted some one else for the job, dissing his trusted campaign co-chair, couldn't that cause some bad blood between J3 and Obama?

    Heck, also, maybe Obama knew J3 was offering cash and Blago wanted to rub Obama's nose in his refusal to do the same...

    Parent

    ABC News: Jackson, Jr. is Candidate 5 in Blagojevich Complaint | 192 comments (192 topical)